Can you explain the determinant formula using permutation notation?

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    Determinants Formula
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the determinant formula expressed in permutation notation, specifically addressing the notation and concepts involved in the formula. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of determinants, including the role of permutations and their signatures, as well as practical examples of calculating determinants for small matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the determinant formula, particularly the notation used in the expression involving permutations.
  • Another participant explains that P represents a permutation of the set {1,2,...,n} and argues that the notation should refer to the signature of the permutation (sgn P) rather than det P.
  • This participant elaborates on the concepts of even and odd permutations, providing examples and discussing how these relate to the determinant calculation.
  • A third participant describes the process of selecting one number from each row and column of a matrix to compute the determinant, emphasizing the importance of the permutation's parity in determining the sign of the contribution to the determinant.
  • This participant also provides a detailed example of calculating the determinant for a 2x2 matrix, illustrating the concept of permutations and their effects on the determinant's sign.
  • Another example is mentioned for a 3x3 matrix, highlighting the factorial nature of the number of permutations and the balance of positive and negative contributions to the determinant.
  • A final participant expresses gratitude for the explanations, indicating that their confusion was primarily about the notation rather than the underlying concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concepts behind the determinant and the role of permutations, but there is a disagreement regarding the correct notation to use in the formula, specifically whether to use "det P" or "sgn P." The discussion remains unresolved on this notation issue.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the notation used in the determinant formula and the assumptions underlying the definitions of permutations and their signatures. There is an implicit understanding that the notation may vary among different sources.

Unusualskill
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Can anyone explain to me this formula?

det(A)=∑ det(P)a1p(1)a2p(2)...a nP(n)
----------P

I understand the reasoning behind the formula, but i don't understand this notation...
 
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P is a permutation on the set {1,2,...,n}. A permutation is a bijection. So the sets {1,2,...,n}={P(1),P(2),...,P(n)} are the same. That shouldn't be "det P" after the summation sigma. It should be "sgn P" or some other notation for the signature of the permutation. A permutation is said to be even if it's equivalent to an even number of swaps of two elements. For example, the permutation P defined by P(1)=2, P(2)=3, P(3)=1 is even, because you can rearrange (1,2,3) to (2,3,1) by first swapping 1 and 2 to get (2,1,3) and then swapping 1 and 3 to get (2,3,1). Odd permutations are defined similarly. Every permutation is either even or odd. The signature of a permutation is defined to be +1 if the permutation is even, and -1 if the permutation is odd. The most common notation for the signature of P is sgn P. I have also seen the notation ##(-1)^P##.

The specific permutation I used as an example can be written as (2 3 1), i.e. you simply list the numbers that 1,2,3 are taken to, in the appropriate order. The even permutations on the set {1,2,3} are (1 2 3), (2 3 1) and (3 1 2). The odd ones are (2 1 3), (3 2 1) and (1 3 2). So for a 3x3 matrix A,
\begin{align}
&=\det A =\sum_P(\operatorname{sgn}P) A_{1,P(n)}\dots,A_{n,P(n)}=\\
&=A_{11}A_{22}A_{33}+ A_{12}A_{23}A_{31}+A_{13}A_{21}A_{32} -A_{13}A_{22}A_{31} - A_{12}A_{21}A_{33}- A_{11}A_{23}A_{32}
\end{align}
 
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What that says is "choose one number from each row and column of the array and multiply them together"
That will be a product of the form a_{1i}a_{2j}\cdot\cdot\cdot a_{nk} where the "1, 2, ..., n" are the row numbers and "i, j, ..., k" are the column numbers. Since there is one number from each row, we do have "1, 2, ..., n". Since there is one number from each column, "i, j, ..., k" is a permutation of "1, 2, ..., n". Multiply the product by 1 if it is an even permutation and by -1 if an odd permutation. Do that for all possible choices of "one number from each row and each column" and add them all together.

For example, for the 2 by 2 determinant, \left|\begin{array}{cc}a_{11} & a_{12} \\ a_{21} & a_{22}\end{array}\right| if we choose "itex]a_{11}[/itex] from the "first row first column" since we already have a number from the first row, we must next choose from the second row. Since we already have a number from the first column, we must choose from the second column- we must choose a_{22} from "second row second column" so have product a_{11}a_{22}. The second indices in each number "12" is obviously an even permutation of "12" so we have +a_{11}a_{22}.
Now, choose a_{12} from the first row. That is from the second column so we must also choose a_{21} from the second row, second column. The product is a_{12}a_{21}[/tex] and the second indices, &quot;21&quot; are an odd permutation of &quot;12&quot; so this is negative: -a_{12}a_{21}. Those are all possible such choices so the determinant is a_{11}a_{22}- a_{12}a_{21}.<br /> <br /> For a 3 by 3 array, there are 3 choices for a number from the first row, then two choices for a number from the second rwo, NOT in the same column, then 1 choice for a number from the third row not in either of the first two columns chosen. Thus, there area 3!= 6 such choices because there are 3! permutations of &quot;123&quot;, half of them even and half of them odd. So we would have the sum and differences of 6 terms just as Fredrik shows.<br /> <br /> In general, there are n! such choices for an n by n array. Half will be positive and half negative. Of course, that would be an insane way of actually calculating determinants which is why we use other things like &quot;expansion by minors&quot;.
 
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thanks guys...anyway i understand the ideas behind already...it was just the notation that confused me...I know how to compute using big formula anyway.thx
 

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