Canonical orientation on level set submanifolds?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the orientability of level set submanifolds defined by smooth maps between oriented manifolds. Participants explore the conditions under which a level set is orientable, particularly focusing on the implications of the ambient manifold's orientability.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in the case where the target manifold N is R, the gradient of F provides a transverse vector field that determines an orientation on the level set S.
  • Another participant suggests that if S is a submanifold of an oriented manifold M, then S is orientable if the normal bundle of S is trivial, proposing a method to define orientation using a global frame of the normal bundle.
  • A later reply agrees with the idea that the normal bundle over S is trivial when S is the preimage of a regular value, indicating that a global basis can be derived from the tangent bundle at that value.
  • Participants discuss whether the result holds when the ambient manifold M is not orientable, with one participant expressing skepticism and seeking counterexamples.
  • One participant proposes a specific example involving RP^2 in RP^4 but notes that the chosen value is not a regular value, questioning the validity of the example.
  • Another participant introduces a different example involving a non-orientable manifold and its Cartesian product with a circle, suggesting that each level set in this case is also non-orientable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether level set submanifolds remain orientable when the ambient manifold is not orientable. There is no consensus on a definitive counterexample, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the need for regular values in their examples and the implications of triviality of the normal bundle, but the discussion does not resolve the conditions under which these assumptions hold.

quasar987
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There's a problem here from past years qualifiers exam that says

"Show that if M is an oriented manifold,F:M-->N is smooth, and c is a regular values of F, then S:=F-1(c) is an orientable submanifold of M."

I know that in the case where N=R, then there is a canonical transverse vector field to S given by grad(F), so this determines an orientation on S. But what about the general case? To generalize the above "argument", we would need dim(N) independent vector fields along S (or sections of the normal bundle of S if you prefer) that are transverse to S... where do we find those??
 
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Mmh, I think I have figured this out... Basically, the key in the "classical argument" (the case N=R) is that grad(F)|_S gives a global section of the 1-dimensional normal bundle of S... that is to say, a trivialization of nu_S.

More generally, if S is a submanifold (embedded or immersed) of an oriented manifold M, then S is orientable whenever the normal bundle of S is trivial. (Just take a global frame (E_1,...,E_k) of the normal bundle and we define the orientation of T_pS to be the orientation determined by a basis which completes the frame (E_i(p)) to a positively oriented basis of T_pM.)

In particular, in the case where S=F-1(c), c a regular value, then F_*:\nu_S\rightarrow T_cN is a bundle map, hence triviality of the normal bundle..
 
Last edited:
quasar987 said:
There's a problem here from past years qualifiers exam that says

"Show that if M is an oriented manifold,F:M-->N is smooth, and c is a regular values of F, then S:=F-1(c) is an orientable submanifold of M."

I know that in the case where N=R, then there is a canonical transverse vector field to S given by grad(F), so this determines an orientation on S. But what about the general case? To generalize the above "argument", we would need dim(N) independent vector fields along S (or sections of the normal bundle of S if you prefer) that are transverse to S... where do we find those??
Your idea seems right. I think the inverse image of the tangent bundle at c is trivial so the normal bundle over S is trivial and is thus orientable. I am just thinking that the inverse image of any bundle over a point is trivial and the derivative is a bundle map from the normal bundle of S to the tangent bundle at c. I guess a global basis would be the inverse image of a basis for the tangent bundle at c.
 
Last edited:
lavinia said:
I guess a global basis would be the inverse image of a basis for the tangent bundle at c.
Indeed.


The question then follows up with asking if the result remains true when the ambiant manifold M is not orientable. In other words, is every level set submanifold orientable? I assume the answer is no, but what is a counterexample?

I tried RP^2 in RP^4 as the preimage of 0 by the map f:RP4-->R:[x1:...:x5]-->1-(x12+...+x32), but 0 is not a regular value of that map!

Any idea?
 
quasar987 said:
Indeed.


The question then follows up with asking if the result remains true when the ambiant manifold M is not orientable. In other words, is every level set submanifold orientable? I assume the answer is no, but what is a counterexample?

I tried RP^2 in RP^4 as the preimage of 0 by the map f:RP4-->R:[x1:...:x5]-->1-(x12+...+x32), but 0 is not a regular value of that map!

Any idea?

I'm not sure what you are asking but here is an example to show you why I am confused.

Take a non-orientable manifold Cartesian product the circle and map this Cartesian product onto the circle by projection. Then each level set is a non-orientable manifold.
 
lavinia, recall that the original question was

"Show that if M is an oriented manifold,F:M-->N is smooth, and c is a regular values of F, then S:=F-1(c) is an orientable submanifold of M."

The question then asks

"Is this still true if M is not orientable?"

By your clever counter-example, the answer is no! :) Thanks!
 

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