Insights Causal Perturbation Theory - Comments

Click For Summary
Causal perturbation theory is discussed as a mathematically well-defined framework for constructing quantum field theories, though it only yields an asymptotic series and lacks a rigorous treatment of infrared limits. The conversation highlights the historical contributions of Bogoliubov and Shirkov, as well as Epstein and Glaser, in developing this theory, with emphasis on the need for rigorous treatment of time ordering and infrared problems. Participants debate the relationship between causal perturbation theory and Wilsonian effective field theories, suggesting that while causal perturbation theory reproduces standard results, it cannot be framed within a cutoff approach. The discussion also touches on the implications of causal perturbation theory for understanding the nature of particles like electrons as infraparticles. Overall, the theory is positioned as a valuable tool for approximating results in quantum field theory, despite its limitations in rigor and completeness.
  • #91
A. Neumaier said:
The field operators defined by functional differentiation with respect to he test fuctions ##g## satisfy causal commutation rules and transform in a Poincare covariant way. For this to work, ##S(g)## is just a formal object without any pretense of being an S-matrix. No adiabatic limit is involved here.

The adiabatic limit is only needed to recover the Poincare invariant S-matrix. However, this limit is a long distance (low energy) IR limit.

On the other hand, conventional regulaization schemes such as dimensional regularization or procedures with a cutoff regularize instead the short distance (high energy) UV behavior. The latter would correspond to requiring somewhere in causal peturbation theory a limit where ##g## approaches a delta function. But such a limit is never even contemplated in the literature on the causal approach.
Now I'm puzzled. I thought the entire business of the causal PT approach is the usual UV regularization. I guess, I have to study this approach in more detail to understand what's behind it.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #92
vanhees71 said:
Now I'm puzzled. I thought the entire business of the causal PT approach is the usual UV regularization. I guess, I have to study this approach in more detail to understand what's behind it.
The causal approach achieves UV renormalization without any regularization. But to be able to work with free fields it regularizes the physical S-matrix in the IR by means of test functions with compact support (rather than arbitrary smooth ones), which amounts to switching off the interaction at large distances. The adiabatic limit restores the long distance interactions.

This is fully analogous to truncating short range potentials in quantum mechanics in order to be able to use free particles at large negative and positive times to of obtain an S-matrix without any limit. In quantum mechanics, the adiabatic limit restores the original potential. The mathematically proper treatment has to introduce a Hilbert space of asymptotic states and a Möller operator that transforms from infinite time to finite time. This makes the whole procedure less intuitive and requires more machinery from functional analysis, described rigorously in the 4 mathematical physics volumes of Reed and Simon.
 
  • #93
vanhees71 said:
Now I'm puzzled. I thought the entire business of the causal PT approach is the usual UV regularization. I guess, I have to study this approach in more detail to understand what's behind it.
There are no UV divergences in CPT since it uses renormalized distributions, so no UV regularization is needed. The causal approach with ##S(g)## is based on switching the interaction in a finite spacetime region featured by the function ##g(x)## of which ##S(g)## is the functional. The physical S-matrix corresponds to the limit when the spacetime volume goes to infinity. So the adiabatic limit is an IR limit.
 
  • #94
A. Neumaier said:
There is no regularization in causal perturbation theory.
A. Neumaier said:
But to be able to work with free fields it regularizes the physical S-matrix in the IR by means of test functions with compact support (rather than arbitrary smooth ones), which amounts to switching off the interaction at large distances.
I guess in the first sentence you meant UV regularization then. I thought vanhees was all along talking about the obvious IR regularization in CPT. In any case there is some kind of regularization always involved.
 
  • #95
Tendex said:
I guess in the first sentence you meant UV regularization then.
Yes, corrected. In the above context, I was referring to regularization in the UV sense, like vanhees7. I became more precise when it was clear that misunderstandings resulted.
 
  • Like
Likes Tendex
  • #96
A. Neumaier said:
The causal approach achieves UV renormalization without any regularization. But to be able to work with free fields it regularizes the physical S-matrix in the IR by means of test functions with compact support (rather than arbitrary smooth ones), which amounts to switching off the interaction at large distances. The adiabatic limit restores the long distance interactions.

This is fully analogous to truncating short range potentials in quantum mechanics in order to be able to use free particles at large negative and positive times to of obtain an S-matrix without any limit. In quantum mechanics, the adiabatic limit restores the original potential. The mathematically proper treatment has to introduce a Hilbert space of asymptotic states and a Möller operator that transforms from infinite time to finite time. This makes the whole procedure less intuitive and requires more machinery from functional analysis, described rigorously in the 4 mathematical physics volumes of Reed and Simon.
But renormalization has nothing to do with regularization. Regularization in the usual approach is just to get finite quantities to be able to calculate the "unrenormalized quantities" before you renormalize them, i.e., to express the unobservable "infinite constants of the theory" in terms of "measuarable finite ones".

BPHZ-like schemes directly define the renormalized proper vertex functions in a given scheme without previous regularization.

As I said, I guess I've simply not really understood, how this special scheme of causal PT works to regularize/renormalize the UV divergences, and it must somehow handle this first, before one can address the IR/collinear divergences, which only occur in theories with massless fields.
 
  • #97
vanhees71 said:
Regularization in the usual approach is just to get finite quantities to be able to calculate the "unrenormalized quantities" before you renormalize them, i.e., to express the unobservable "infinite constants of the theory" in terms of "measurable finite ones". [...] I've simply not really understood, how this special scheme of causal PT works to regularize/renormalize the UV divergences,
Such "infinite constants of the theory" or ''UV divergences'' nowhere arise in the causal approach, hence no regularization is needed. Even the word ''re''normalization is a misnomer in this approach, since from the start only physical parameters appear.

The only remnant of the traditional renormalization approach is due to subtracted dispersion relations, which introduces at each order some constants. But these are fixed immediately by relations that lead to a unique distribution splitting.
 
  • #98
So what's the strategy to get rid of the usual infinities and where comes renormalization in in the scheme of causal perturbation theory. The point is that you need renormalization no matter whether you have infinities or not. If you don't have infinities of course you don't need regularization.

The reason why I never was much interested in the book by Scharf was that my (maybe too superficial) glance over it I had indeed the impression that it's not more than the use of subtracted dispersion relations. This is of course also a way to renormalize in the standard approach, as shown in Landau Lifshitz vol. IV. I'm only not so sure, whether it's practical for higher than one-loop calculations.
 
  • #99
vanhees71 said:
So what's the strategy to get rid of the usual infinities
The strategy is to never introduce them. The distributions used have the mathematically correct singularities, and these distributions are manipulated in a mathematically well-defined way. Thus infinities cannot appear by design.
vanhees71 said:
where comes renormalization in in the scheme of causal perturbation theory.
Only in the fact that the final results agree with the results of conventional renormalization schemes. The starting point (i.e., the axioms and the first order ansatz) does not refer to anything that would need renormalization.
vanhees71 said:
The point is that you need renormalization no matter whether you have infinities or not.
This is a wrong, unsupported claim. One needs it only if one starts with the ill-defined Dyson series.
vanhees71 said:
I'm only not so sure, whether it's practical for higher than one-loop calculations.
How many loops are you using for your QCD calculations?
 
Last edited:
  • #100
The recent book
  • Michael Dütsch, From Classical Field Theory to Perturbative Quantum Field Theory, Birkhäuser 2019
treats causal perturbation theory in a different way than Scharf, using off-shell deformation quantization rather than Fock space as the starting point. From the preface:
Michael Dütsch said:
the aim of this book is to give a logically satisfactory route from the fundamental principles to the concrete applications of pQFT, which is well intelligible for students in mathematical physics on the master or Ph.D. level. This book is mainly written for the latter; it is made to be used as basis for an introduction to pQFT in a graduate-level course.
[...]
This formalism is also well suited for practical computations, as is explained in Sect. 3.5 (“Techniques to renormalize in practice”) and by many examples and exercises.
[...]
The observables are constructed as formal power series in the coupling constant and in ##\hbar##.
[...]
This book yields a perturbative construction of the net of algebras of observables (“perturbative algebraic QFT”, Sect. 3.7), this net satisfies the Haag–Kastler axioms [93] of algebraic QFT, expect that there is no suitable norm available on these formal power series.
In contrast to Scharf, he often uses renormalization language. However, he also writes (p.165, his italics):
Michael Dütsch said:
However, we emphasize: Epstein–Glaser renormalization is well defined without any regularization or divergent counter terms. We introduce these devices only as a method for practical computation of the extension of distributions (see Sect. 3.5.2 about analytic regularization), or to be able to mimic Wilson’s renormalization group (see Sect. 3.9).
 
Last edited:
  • #101
A. Neumaier said:
The strategy is to never introduce them. The distributions used have the mathematically correct singularities, and these distributions are manipulated in a mathematically well-defined way. Thus infinities cannot appear by design.

Only in the fact that the final results agree with the results of conventional renormalization schemes. The starting point (i.e., the axioms and the first order ansatz) does not refer to anything that would need renormalization.

This is a wrong, unsupported claim. One needs it only if one starts with the ill-defined Dyson series.

How many loops are you using for your QCD calculations?
Well, I guess I'm only wasting your time and I should rather make another attempt to read Scharf's book again, but why is it wrong that you need renormalization in perturbation theory?

In the conventional theory you need to choose a renormalization scheme and the proper vertex functions depend on this choice. The S-matrix elements are independent of the choice (at the order you've calculated them), which is the content of the renormalization group equations. So is causal perturbation theory just a special choice of a renormalization scheme and where in this scheme are the renormalization-group equations hidden?
 
  • #102
How many loops are you using for your QCD calculations?

vanhees71 said:
why is it wrong that you need renormalization in perturbation theory?

In the conventional theory you need to choose a renormalization scheme and the proper vertex functions depend on this choice. The S-matrix elements are independent of the choice (at the order you've calculated them), which is the content of the renormalization group equations. So is causal perturbation theory just a special choice of a renormalization scheme and where in this scheme are the renormalization-group equations hidden?
The parameterization of the S-matrix of QED in terms of the physical mass and charge fixes the first order term in ##S(g)## and hence everything, so there is nothing to be renormalized.

But there is some freedom in the construction. It can be used to introduce a redundant parameter at the cost of introducing running coupling constants and more complex formulas. Since the physical electron charge corresponds to a running charge at zero energy, the parameterization of the S-matrix in terms of the physical mass and charge corresponds to a conventional renormalization at zero photon mass.

Scharf writes in the 1995 edition:
Günther Scharf said:
(p.260:) It should be remembereded that the vacuum polarization tensor, for other reasons, is normalized by the conditions (3.6.34, 35). Then, it gives no contribution to charge normalization, too. If one assumes a different normalization of ##\Pi(k)##, then the coupling constant in ##T_1(x)## and the physical charge are no longer equal. This is the starting point for the renormalization group. This subject will be discussed in Sect. 4.8.

(p.271:) The subject of this section is called renormalizability in other textbooks. The reader will agree that the prefix "re" is of no use here. By renormalization we always mean finite renormalization of an already normalized T-distribution, as discussed in Sect. 3.13, for example.

The redundant parameter would have no effect in the nonperturbative solution. But since the expansion point is different, it leads to different results at each order of perturbation theory. These perturbative results are then related by finite renormalizations in terms of a Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group. It expresses the charge appearing in the coupling constant - now no longer the experimental charge but running with the energy scale - in terms of the physical mass and charge.

Thus renormalization is finite and optional. Maybe this is special to QED since the free physical parameters have a direct physical meaning.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #103
I'm also new to this approach and haven't got around to getting a copy of Scharf's book yet, so I might be misunderstanding concepts. Acording to your comment in #62 about the moral of the video lecture I linked, it seemed to me that the CPT approach is in some sense opposite to the effective field renormalization group approach that is oriented to the traditional perturbative approach with Feynman propagators plagued with UV divergences, so it looks to me that trying to recover renormalization group equations in it goes against the spirit of CPT, is this so?
 
  • #104
Tendex said:
I'm also new to this approach and haven't got around to getting a copy of Scharf's book yet, so I might be misunderstanding concepts. Acording to your comment in #62 about the moral of the video lecture I linked, it seemed to me that the CPT approach is in some sense opposite to the effective field renormalization group approach that is oriented to the traditional perturbative approach with Feynman propagators plagued with UV divergences, so it looks to me that trying to recover renormalization group equations in it goes against the spirit of CPT, is this so?
Not really. There are two very different renormalization groups which should not be mixed up. The first one by Wilson is important in nonequilibrium thermodynamics and for condensed but approximate descriptions in terms of composite fields. The second, older one by Stückelberg is the most important one in local quantum field theory and is not related to effective fields but to overparameterization.
  • The Wilson renormalization group (actually only a semigroup, but the name has stuck) is based on removing high energy degrees of freedom by repeated infinitesimal coarse graining. It loses information and hence leads to approximate effective field theories and the Wetterich renormalization group equation.
  • The Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group (a true group) expresses the running coupling constant through the Callan-Symanzik renormalization group equation. This group is due to the existence of a redundant mass/energy parameter and has nothing to do with effective fields, as it does not change the contents of the theory, only the perturbative expansion.
The Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group already appears in the quantum mechanics of an anharmonic oscillator when one wants to relate the perturbation series obtained by perturbing around Hamiltonians describing harmonic oscillators with different frequency. The frequency chosen is arbitrary and hence nonphysical; it is the analogue of the renormalization scale in QFT.
 
  • #105
Ok, so in #62 you(and the lecturer) just meant that effective theory in the sense of Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group was not as nice dealing with perturbative UV divergences as CPT?

Also I believe in particle physics they sometimes mix the philosophy of the Wilsonian RG approach with the perturbative RG in their quest for machines with ever higher energies.
 
  • #106
Tendex said:
Ok, so in #62 you(and the lecturer) just meant that effective theory in the sense of Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group was not as nice dealing with perturbative UV divergences as CPT?

Also I believe in particle physics they sometimes mix the philosophy of the Wilsonian RG approach with the perturbative RG in their quest for machines with ever higher energies.
No.

Effective field theory is always in the sense of Wilson, and #62 is only about this. The Wilson RG connects a family of different QFTs accurate at different energies.

Effective field theories deal with UV divergences by changing the problem. By imposing an effective cutoff they simply ignore the full theory and approximate it by something different, sufficient for experimental practice up to a certain energy. Thus they do not need to account for the (in local quantum field theories unavoidable) singularities from which UV divergences arise in the common sloppy treatments.

On the other hand, the Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group describes a reparameterization of the same field theory, and hence cannot get rid of the physical singularities in the theory. Instead one needs the causal machinery.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Tendex
  • #107
A. Neumaier said:
How many loops are you using for your QCD calculations?The parameterization of the S-matrix of QED in terms of the physical mass and charge fixes the first order term in ##S(g)## and hence everything, so there is nothing to be renormalized.

But there is some freedom in the construction. It can be used to introduce a redundant parameter at the cost of introducing running coupling constants and more complex formulas. Since the physical electron charge corresponds to a running charge at zero energy, the parameterization of the S-matrix in terms of the physical mass and charge corresponds to a conventional renormalization at zero photon mass.

Scharf writes in the 1005 edition:The redundant parameter would have no effect in the nonperturbative solution. But since the expansion point is different, it leads to different results at each order of perturbation theory. These perturbative results are then related by finite renormalizations in terms of a Stückelberg-Petermann renormalization group. It expresses the charge appearing in the coupling constant - now no longer the experimental charge but running with the energy scale - in terms of the physical mass and charge.

Thus renormalization is finite and optional. Maybe this is special to QED since the free physical parameters have a direct physical meaning.
Well, the running of the coupling is important in perturbation theory even in QED. It's a much better approximation using tree-level scattering results at high energies using the running coupling than to use the (quasi-)onshell scheme from low-energy QED (the running coupling at a scale around the Z-mass is 1/128 rather than 1/137).

Of course, if at the end causal PT is equivalent to standard PT, there must be a possibility to renormalize, i.e., to change the renormalization scheme. Of course, if you start with a renormalized theory, i.e., finite expressions for the proper vertex functions changing the renormalization scheme is a finite change of the running parameters.
 
  • Like
Likes Tendex
  • #108
vanhees71 said:
the running of the coupling is important in perturbation theory even in QED. It's a much better approximation using tree-level scattering results at high energies using the running coupling than to use the (quasi-)onshell scheme from low-energy QED (the running coupling at a scale around the Z-mass is 1/128 rather than 1/137).
Yes, but in case of QED it just means introducing an extra parameter that modifies the free theory with respect to which you perturb. It is like changing the free frequency in the perturbation theory of an anharmonic oscillator. Physical results are independent of this choice but perturbative results are not. In the case of a QFT one can introduce even more than one such redundant parameter and then has a multipaameter RG.
vanhees71 said:
Of course, if at the end causal PT is equivalent to standard PT, there must be a possibility to renormalize, i.e., to change the renormalization scheme. Of course, if you start with a renormalized theory, i.e., finite expressions for the proper vertex functions changing the renormalization scheme is a finite change of the running parameters.
And it is, as done by Scharf in the Section on the renormalization group.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #109
A. Neumaier said:
The whole point of resummation is that it includes important contributions from all energies. The size of the terms in the power series is completely irrelevant for the behavior of the resummed formulas.

Borel summation is not sufficient because of the appearance of renormalon contributions. The promising approach is via resurgent transseries, an approach much more powerful than Borel summation.
A nice overview is in the recent lecture
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 108 ·
4
Replies
108
Views
17K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K