Quasar Brightness: A Case of Light-Days or Light-Years?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the brightness variations of quasars and the implications for their size and distance. Participants explore the relationship between observed brightness changes and the physical dimensions of quasars, debating whether these changes can be reconciled with the distances suggested by redshift measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the rapid brightness changes observed in quasars suggest they cannot be larger than a few light-days across, as changes would take longer to propagate across larger distances.
  • Others argue that most quasars vary in brightness over weeks or months, indicating that rapid variations do not imply small sizes, and that claims of quasars being much closer than their redshift indicates are not supported by mainstream science.
  • A participant requests examples of rebuttals to the idea that quasars are closer than their redshift suggests, indicating a desire for evidence-based discussion.
  • Some participants suggest that the brightness changes could be localized, with the possibility that a small region emits enough light to account for observed brightness, while others challenge this notion as implausible.
  • There is a call for evidence to support claims regarding quasar brightness variations and their implications for size, highlighting the need for references in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of quasar brightness variations for their size and distance. There is no consensus on whether rapid brightness changes can be reconciled with larger distances suggested by redshift, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the nature of light propagation and the relationship between brightness and distance, which have not been fully explored or agreed upon in the discussion.

Phys12
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The video:

When Astrophysicists detected Quasars, they thought that they could not be more than a few light-days across as they were changing their brightness in just a few days. If we assume that they are light-years long, then the change in brightness from the other side would be observed year later, but we see the entire object's brightness change in just a few days.

However, can't it be the case that the closer end changed its brightness so much that it changed our measurements of the entire object's brightness while the change was still progressing through it at the farther end?
 
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According to any number of sources, most quasars vary in brightness over a span of several weeks or a month. While some do vary in brightness over a matter of days, it is not assumed, nor is there any evidence suggesting such rapid variations are representative of an object that spans light years in size. The video confirms these simple facts. Claims that quasars are much closer than their redshift indicates have been repeatedly rebutted over the years and are not seriously entertained by mainstream scientists.
 
Chronos said:
Claims that quasars are much closer than their redshift indicates have been repeatedly rebutted over the years and are not seriously entertained by mainstream scientists.

Can you provide any examples of, or pointers to, rebuttals to the claims that quasars are much closer than their redshift indicates?
 
OK, I'll bite, how about http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0506366; Critical Examinations of QSO Redshift Periodicities and Associations with Galaxies in Sloan Digital Sky Survey Data, http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.2641; Evidence against non-cosmological redshifts of QSOs in SDSS data, http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#QZ,
 
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Phys12 said:
However, can't it be the case that the closer end changed its brightness so much that it changed our measurements of the entire object's brightness while the change was still progressing through it at the farther end?
It doesn't change the conclusion: the change in brightness happens in a small region. If the whole object suddenly appears twice as bright as before, then a small region has to emit as much light as the whole object before.
 
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mfb said:
then a small region has to emit as much light as the whole object before.
Which is impossible?
 
Which is possible. But that is the whole point: you can use the sudden luminosity changes to estimate the size of the region where the light (at least most of it) comes from.
 
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Chrono said:
According to any number of sources, most quasars vary in brightness over a span of several weeks or a month. While some do vary in brightness over a matter of days, it is not assumed, nor is there any evidence suggesting such rapid variations are representative of an object that spans light years in size. The video confirms these simple facts. Claims that quasars are much closer than their redshift indicates have been repeatedly rebutted over the years and are not seriously entertained by mainstream scientists.
Would you please share some evidence based reference that validates you statement...!
 
Last edited:
If you fail to comprehend the evidence already presented, you are beyond my help.
 

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