Cinco de Mayo: Celebrating a Mexican Victory & US Unity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the events surrounding Cinco de Mayo, particularly a controversy at a school where students wore American flag shirts on this holiday. Participants explore the implications of this incident, the cultural significance of Cinco de Mayo, and the broader themes of freedom of expression and multiculturalism in the United States.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the significance of Cinco de Mayo, noting that it is more widely celebrated in the U.S. than in Mexico.
  • One participant argues that wearing American flags on a Mexican holiday was provocative and could be seen as disrespectful, especially given the school's history of tensions between student groups.
  • Another participant defends the students' right to wear American flags, suggesting that banning such expressions infringes on their freedom of speech.
  • A later reply questions the school's decision, suggesting it reflects a lack of faith in the Latino community and missed educational opportunities regarding multicultural values.
  • Some participants draw parallels to other cultural celebrations in the U.S., questioning whether similar restrictions on displaying national symbols have occurred in those contexts.
  • One participant references the Supreme Court case Tinker v. Des Moines, arguing that students should have the right to express themselves unless there is clear intent to incite conflict.
  • Several posts express a need for more information about the incident, with some participants requesting sources and details to better understand the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on whether the students were right or wrong in their actions, or on the appropriateness of the school's response. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on freedom of expression, cultural sensitivity, and the implications of the incident.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the lack of detailed information about the incident, including the specific context of the school environment and the history of tensions between student groups. There are also references to ongoing discussions about cultural pride and identity.

  • #61
zomgwtf said:
...Flags represent an entire nation, everything about it,
...

This is exactly what I mean. It's a total fiction to prentend some group or territory has some spotless history or moral superiority. It seems that such thinking "WE are better then YOU" is exactly what I find offensive. I can't spell it out much more clearly.
 
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  • #62
I think in this case its less about current national pride and more about ancestral pride since it was on a day honoring Mexican heritage and these students were opposing that with their own. Doing so on that specific day then to Oppose them basically expressed their pride in the CONFLICT between the two heritages rather than any individual national pride.
There IS a difference, albeit a small one, and it is this difference which I believe allowed the principal the authority and freedom to deem it possible to incite violence.
 
  • #63
Galteeth said:
This is exactly what I mean. It's a total fiction to prentend some group or territory has some spotless history or moral superiority. It seems that such thinking "WE are better then YOU" is exactly what I find offensive. I can't spell it out much more clearly.
You seem to be just grasping for things now.

No one said anything about moral superiority. I wrote out a long post addressing this flaw in your post in relation to flags but I hit the F5 button and lost everything, do not feel like typing it all out.

In short though it said that morals are subjective, not objective. I think most people understand this so if a person thinks 'my nation is better than yours based on morals' then they are only saying 'I believe my nation is better because...' it has no objective meaning... This happens with EVERYTHING about beliefs, 100% of the population will never agree on all things. This will naturally lead to 'I think that this idea is better than yours,' it's only human.

Anyway this has nothing to do with finding flags offensive. If you find your countries flag offensive because it symbolizes freedom or other moral standards etc. then I still do not see why you decide to reside in the country. We do not live in a utopian state, we never will, and people will always have diverse beliefs, there is nothing offensive about it. Actually it makes me love my nations flag even more because we are tolerant of all the diverse beliefs. In fact, it's how our government works.

However I have to call you out as a hypocrit. It would appear to me that you are placing your OWN beliefs higher than all those around you by finding flags offensive... What you are basically your saying 'I find it offensive that people think their ideas are better than others' Which is the same as saying 'I think this idea I have is better.'
 
  • #64
zomgwtf said:
You seem to be just grasping for things now.


Anyway this has nothing to do with finding flags offensive. If you find your countries flag offensive because it symbolizes freedom or other moral standards etc. then I still do not see why you decide to reside in the country. '
That's a strawman and you know it.

zomgwtf said:
However I have to call you out as a hypocrit. It would appear to me that you are placing your OWN beliefs higher than all those around you by finding flags offensive... What you are basically your saying 'I find it offensive that people think their ideas are better than others' Which is the same as saying 'I think this idea I have is better.'
Flags, as symbols of nationalism, are also symbols of nation states. In other words, they are largely military symbols. The notion of "Us" and "them" is not necessarily offensive, but its extension to violence is. As is apparently the case in this school, where the kids are apparently ready to fight over whose colors they fly. Remember, I am not supporting the ban.
Honestly, I can't be sure, but I think you understand exactly what I mean, but are mischaracterizing it out of a strong emotional reaction to the content of the debate.
 

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