Combinations/permutations help

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves counting natural numbers less than 100 that contain the digit 3. The original poster attempts to find a systematic method using combinatorial reasoning, having initially counted some occurrences manually.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the counting of numbers in the form xy where either digit could be a 3, while cautioning against overcounting. There is a suggestion to consider the cases separately for digits in the tens and units places.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different ways to approach the counting problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the structure of the numbers, but no consensus or definitive method has emerged yet.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses a lack of confidence in their combinatorial skills, indicating a need for clearer methods or strategies. There is also mention of potential overcounting in the approach being discussed.

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Homework Statement



How many (natural) numbers less than 100 contain a 3? (Note: 13, 35 and 73 all
contain a 3 but 42, 65 and 88 do not).

The Attempt at a Solution



Of course I know that the numbers containing a 3 including 10 numbers starting with a 3 (30, . . . 39),and 10 numbers ending in a 3 (3, 13, . . . , 93), with 33 being counted twice, so a total of 19 numbers. I've found this by counting. But is there a quick systematic way of obtaining this answer using combinations/permutations etc? Unfortunently my knowledge of combinatorics is very poor, so I appreciate any help.

Between 10 to 100 there are 98 2-digit numbers that can possibly contain a 3 in the 1's or 10's positions... I'm stuck here.
 
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Not every combinatorics problem involves permutations or combinations.

Think of it this way: You want to count the numbers of the form xy where x or y is a 3.

It would be easy to overcount, so be careful.
 


awkward said:
Not every combinatorics problem involves permutations or combinations.

Think of it this way: You want to count the numbers of the form xy where x or y is a 3.

It would be easy to overcount, so be careful.

The only count would be 33. So other than counting, there are no easy systematic ways of doing this?
 


How many numbers are there where x is a 3?

How many numbers are there where y is a 3?
 

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