Corona virus, no longer considered just a respiratory disease

[Evo]

This has come up in the press the last few days that they now believe Covid-19 is not just a respiratory disease. This is a very interesting article on it. It explains the virus and how it works.

We Thought It Was Just a Respiratory Virus
We were wrong.

In late January, when hospitals in the United States confirmed the presence of the novel coronavirus, health workers knew to watch for precisely three symptoms: fever, cough, and shortness of breath. But as the number of infections climbed, the symptom list began to grow. Some patients lost their sense of smell and taste. Some had nausea or diarrhea. Some had arrhythmias or even heart attacks. Some had damaged kidneys or livers. Some had headaches, blood clots, rashes, swelling, or strokes. Many had no symptoms at all.

By June, clinicians were swapping journal papers, news stories, and tweets describing more than three dozen ways that COVID-19, the disease the Coronavirus causes, appears to manifest itself.

they are beginning to piece together the story of a virus unlike any known before.

https://www.ucsf.edu/magazine/covid-body

 

[berkeman]

they now believe Covid-19 is not a respiratory disease

"not just a respiratory virus". Important to include that bolded word...

 

[fresh_42]

I have heard $^*)$ that most people who die, is because of blood clots in their lungs.

$^*)$ I know, but my source is someone who rather fact checks news than jumping on the bandwagon of cheap outrage like me, plus who has real medical knowledge for several reasons and whose own survival depends on that knowledge.

 

[StatGuy2000]

The issue that I have in the way COVID-19 is being characterised (including the UCSF article linked above) is that COVID-19 had been defined as "just a respiratory disease". But diseases we think of as respiratory diseases often do not just exhibit symptoms in the respiratory tract.

For example, let's take some of the symptoms now known to be associated with COVID-19 -- nausea and diarrhea. Nausea and diarrhea are also fairly common (or at least not uncommon) symptoms among those with influenza. I can personally attest to this -- I was sick with a particularly bad case of the flu nearly 2 years ago, and my symptoms involved high fever, fatigue, nausea, and diarrhea, but no respiratory symptoms whatsoever (no coughing, no trouble breathing, no sneezing, etc.). But we still think of influenza as being primarily a "respiratory" disease.

It's also worth pointing out that given the connections that the respiratory system has on many other functions of the body, many illnesses that exhibit a respiratory component also have impacts on the cardiovascular and other body systems. This is particularly the case with those with pre-existing medical conditions.

So in this respect, COVID-19 (while having characteristics that are distinct from other Coronavirus infections), nonetheless are not necessarily that different from other viral or bacterial infections that cause what we think of as "respiratory" illnesses.

 

[Rive]

I have heard...

I don't think there is a need for any apology. There are several studies about this.
The issue started to blow up around the beginning of May, but the confirmation took some time and it is yet to make it to 'common knowledge'.

Guess the search for a good therapy will start over again.

The issue that I have in the way COVID-19 is being characterised (including the UCSF article linked above) is that COVID-19 had been defined as "just a respiratory disease".

My humble opinion is, that the story is more about the severe cases, treated 'only' as ARDS from the start.
ARDS is not something what fits well with the word 'just' or 'only'... But clearly a respiratory thing.

 

[hagop]

what similarities it have with HIV ?

 

[Evo]

The thing is there are a lot of people that have tested positive for Covid-19 that had zero respiratory problems. I would have never known that I was considered to have the virus when I went into the doctor for a routine follow-up appointment I made 3 months prior (this was mid-March). Two weeks earlier I had all day nausea for several days and a severe bout of diarrhea. Then it just stopped, so I didn't think anything of it. The next week I went into my doctor appointment and they found I was running a fever. For 4 days I ran a fever between 102F-103F with no other symptoms. (I should mention that this is exceptionally high for me as my normal temperature is around 97.4F, and that was my temperature as taken by my doctor at my last appointment, he said low body temperature is normal for a lot of people). I was finally convinced by friends that if I wasn't better the 5th day, I would call my doctor. Then it just stopped, the morning of the 5th day no fever, no other symptoms, I was fine. I won't go into the fit another doctor's nurse had 4 days later when I called about perhaps cancelling my appointment until I had self quarantined a bit longer.

So, I was never tested, but my doctor is certain I had Covid-19 and was one of the lucky ones. I found out later that I had indeed been exposed to it.

This seems to be the case for many people, I'm not a reported case, so how many asymptomatic people, or people without respiratory symptoms have never been reported? If it wasn't Covid-19, I can not explain my odd symptoms since I do not normally get sick (luckily) I have enough trouble with chronic pain.

 

[hagop]

do you trust the testing results of COvid-19 , what is the chance of wrong positives ?
it is a new virus a lot could happened

 

[jack action]

my doctor is certain I had Covid-19 and was one of the lucky ones.

Funny how people determine who's lucky.

When 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, shouldn't have your doctor said "was not one of the unlucky ones"?

 

[stefan r]

what similarities it have with HIV ?

HIV and Covid 19 are both viruses.

 

[Pythagorean]

re: Covid-19 (a coronavirus) vs HIV (a retrovirus)

• both enveloped
• similar size ranges
• both have capsids, but one's polyhdedral capsid and the other helical capsid
  Ones a retrovirus (DNA intermediates + RNA genes), while ones just an RNA virus (RNA genes)

More from a Forbes article:

A few recent studies on the effects of HIV and SARS-CoV-2 indicate that they do have some similarities. Shanghai-based researchers provided evidence that SARS-CoV-2 can infect T lymphocytes, the same cells targeted by HIV. Other researchers have documented that individuals with severe COVID-19 may exhibit lymphopenia, or an atypically low number of lymphocytes in the blood. Likewise, HIV infection results in this abnormality, eventually causing the immunosuppression associated with AIDS. But these findings should not cause us to assume that SARS-CoV-2 is like HIV.

...

coronaviruses have a significantly lower spontaneous mutation rate than HIV. Preliminary data suggest that this property is true for SARS-CoV-2. We also know that the SARS-CoV-2 genome does not integrate into the genomes of infected cells. Finally, past research on coronaviruses indicates that humans mount a strong immune response to these viruses.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/corona...--and-differences---to-covid-19/#6bf0a74449f8

 

[bhobba]

The thing is there are a lot of people that have tested positive for Covid-19 that had zero respiratory problems.

Or really any problems at all. I have mentioned a politician with zero symptoms was tested just because it was policy to test everyone that came into contact with a case. He thought nothing of it and was stunned when he had it. He was quarantined for at least 2 weeks, and had two negative tests before being released. At no time did he feel unwell in any way - a true asymptomatic case. I do not think anybody knows for sure how many like that there are - but I do not think it is high.

We are having our first local outbreak where I live caused by a youth detention worker with mild cold symptoms who went to work. They only caught her by tracing, and already 6 cases have been found traced to her, but she has been all over the place and we are told to brace for possibly hundreds of cases, and stronger lockdown rules are now in place. The advice being promulgated all over the place is if you think you have even a mild cold, or the flu, its probably Covid and get tested immediately, then self isolate.

On a more positive note the triple tablet of Ivermectin, Zinc and Doxycycline is now being prescribed by GP's here in Aus so we will find out if it is effective and if so how effective. Fingers crossed on that one. We had a bit of a humorous discussion about it, but in looking into it, the theory behind it is now clearer. Ivermectin evidently weakens the protein surrounding the virus. That alone helps and is to some extent effective by itself. But when combined with Zinc and Doxycycline it allowed them to enter the virus and that was when you got the high cure rates of sometimes even 100% in small studies. Zinc oxide has antiviral effects, and believe it or not some antibiotics like Doxycycline do also:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214250920301724

It also helps to explain why Hydroxychloruine has had mixed results and the 6 weeks to work issue my Rheumatologist mentioned:
https://rheumatology.org.au/patients/documents/Hydroxychloroquine_2016_008.pdf

For its normal use it takes weeks to work, but it is now thought it also weakens the virus protein coating and that takes less time than its usual use. However as the above link shows it is not quite as safe as some say - it is not so bad that in normal doses it will kill you, as some said, but Ivermectin is safer.

Thanks
Bill

 

[stefan r]

Or really any problems at all... ... At no time did he feel unwell in any way - a true asymptomatic case. I do not think anybody knows for sure how many like that there are - but I do not think it is high.

It is an open question how many epidemics/pandemics we have per year. Getting transmitted without showing any symptoms would be an evolutionary advantage. A week immune response that controls a virus temporarily but goes away and allows reinfection would have a niche too. Covid 19 is killing people because it is not a human virus. Mammal genes have an evolutionary advantage if they program immune systems to carry viruses capable of killing dissimilar gene pools.

Viruses are raining down from the stratosphere. One study claimed 800 million per square meter per day. That is too much of an inundation to effectively research using random samples. The vast majority of viruses only interact with bacteria and our understanding of bacteria is limited too.

The bacteria who colonize elbow creases could have a pandemic without our noticing. Someone might notice an increase in other bacteria who move into that niche, especially if the new bacteria cause a rash. The number of unnoticed epidemics probably greatly exceeds the number of noticed ones.