Could a New Field Explain Dark Matter's Role in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dark matter and the possibility of explaining its effects through alternative fields or modifications to existing gravitational theories. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, observational evidence, and the implications of various models in the context of dark matter's role in the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose the idea of a field connected to baryonic matter as an alternative to dark matter, questioning the necessity of dark matter itself.
  • Others argue that to explain phenomena like the Bullet Cluster and baryon acoustic oscillation (BAO) peaks, a separate field from baryonic matter is required, suggesting that existing theories like TeVeS ultimately redefine dark matter rather than eliminate it.
  • One participant discusses the limitations of MOND, noting its simplicity and success in predicting galaxy rotation curves but highlighting its theoretical shortcomings and inability to explain cluster dynamics.
  • Another participant elaborates on the Bullet Cluster, describing how the non-interacting dark matter appears to remain associated with the visible matter after a collision, while the interstellar gas clouds interacted and emitted X-rays.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and nature of dark matter, with some advocating for alternative fields and others defending the existence of dark matter as a separate entity. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the theoretical limitations of existing models, including the dependence on specific assumptions and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps in the proposed theories.

bluecap
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For the universe extra source of gravity, why don't they propose some kind of field connected to our matter instead of dark matter?
 
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To account for the bullet cluster and for BAO peaks you'd need to construct a field that is separate from baryonic matter. TeVeS does this, but in the end you just get dark matter by a different name.

The latter part of the following talk covers this issue:
 
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bluecap said:
For the universe extra source of gravity, why don't they propose some kind of field connected to our matter instead of dark matter?
The standard mainline theory of gravity is General Relativity, in which no such additional field exists.

There are alternative theories, such as MOND (Modified Newtonian Dynamics) and its later refinements, which assume modifications to the laws of gravity. MOND leads to a beautifully simple rule with only one universal parameter which is remarkably successful in predicting rotation curves of galaxies, but it is extremely unsatisfactory from a theoretical point of view (for example the force caused by two masses on each other is unequal, and a star or star system as a whole somehow moves differently from the particles which make it up). It also apparently fails to explain the motion of galaxies within a cluster. More complex theories exist (such as TeVeS) which have a similar effect to MOND, are more theoretically self-consistent and can provide a better fit for observations, but they do this by having many more parameters and they are still not very satisfactory from a theoretical point of view.

The "Bullet Cluster" is often considered to provide strong evidence against any modified gravity theory because observations appear to show that there is a concentration of invisible matter which is not in the same location as the visible matter.
 
The 'Bullet Cluster' showed DM still associated with the visible matter after two galaxies that had 'colllided', that is the two galaxies passed through each other but with a X-ray source that had been left between them.

This is interpredted as the non-interacting DM staying with the stars of the galaxies, which passed by each other, but the two galaxy-wide clouds of interstellar gas had collided and combined with each other and so heated to over ~ 106 oK, thus emitting X-rays, and this combined cloud was left behind in the centre.

Garth
 
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