Could a Pre-Big Bang Civilization Have Existed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a pre-Big Bang civilization and the implications of the Big Bang theory on the existence of time, space, and potential advanced civilizations. Participants explore ideas related to the origins of the universe, the nature of time and space, and the possibility of civilizations existing before or outside the Big Bang.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Lyle proposes that the Big Bang could have been preceded by a civilization with advanced technology that might have anticipated the event and found ways to survive it.
  • Some participants question the notion of time and space existing before the Big Bang, referencing standard cosmological models that suggest time begins at t>0.
  • There is a suggestion that the universe could be larger than currently understood, with multiple Big Bangs potentially occurring in different locations.
  • Another participant expresses difficulty in understanding how the observable universe can expand if space did not exist prior to the Big Bang.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of a civilization existing around the edges of the universe, with references to the immense energy required to overcome tidal forces and the nature of spacetime.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of accepting the idea of the universe "popping" into existence and seek resources for better understanding cosmology and relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of skepticism and curiosity regarding the pre-Big Bang civilization concept and the nature of time and space. There is no consensus on the feasibility of these ideas, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in their understanding of cosmology and relativity, indicating a need for foundational knowledge before engaging with these complex concepts. The discussion reflects a mix of speculative ideas and technical challenges without resolving the underlying uncertainties.

Kalantir
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Hi. My name is Lyle and I have some ideas floating around i want to share with you all.

It started when I was thinking about the big bang. What caused it? I mean... events take place for a reason. Cause and effect. Based off of what very little I know, I figure the big bang probably happened when a huge amount of mass collected in one location. I can only assume that there have been many in the past and there will probably be many in the future when gravity pulls all that mass back together.

This led me to another thought. Before our last big bang, whatever the most intelligent species were probably had access to more amazing technology then we can even fathom. They would probably be aware that a big bang was going to happen. Would it be possible for them to travel outside the blast radius of the big bang and form a civilization there?

If the universe has been around for an infinite amount of time, than that means there have been many chances for something like this to happen. So I figure that if it is possible, it almost certainly has happened and probably more than once.

Also, could it be possible that the universe is much much larger than we even suspect? Could there be many big bangs going on in many different locations? If so, what would happen if these big bang locations slowly got pulled together by gravity? Would there then be a series of many big bangs in one location?

Anyways... This is just some of the stuff I was thinking about yesterday and I was wondering if any of this is even remotely possible. The idea of a greater civilization living around the outer edges of the universe is pretty awesome thought to me. I don't really know anything about physics so I thought Id ask you guys about it.
 
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Hi, Lyle,

Welcome to PF!

Kalantir said:
It started when I was thinking about the big bang. What caused it? I mean... events take place for a reason. Cause and effect.
In standard cosmological models based on general relativity, time only exists for t>0. So for each t that does exist, there is a previous time that caused it, but all these times are >0.

Kalantir said:
Based off of what very little I know, I figure the big bang probably happened when a huge amount of mass collected in one location. I can only assume that there have been many in the past and there will probably be many in the future when gravity pulls all that mass back together.
Nope. Please see this FAQ entry: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=506991

Kalantir said:
Also, could it be possible that the universe is much much larger than we even suspect?
Please see this FAQ entry: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=506986

-Ben
 
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Thank you for the quick response. I'm having a hard time grasping the idea that time and space did not exist before the big bang. If the observable universe is expanding, where could it expand to if space didnt exist already?
 
Kalantir said:
Thank you for the quick response. I'm having a hard time grasping the idea that time and space did not exist before the big bang. If the observable universe is expanding, where could it expand to if space didnt exist already?

The usual way of describing it verbally is that space itself is what's expanding. Maybe this will help? -- https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=261161
 
Kalantir said:
Anyways... This is just some of the stuff I was thinking about yesterday and I was wondering if any of this is even remotely possible. The idea of a greater civilization living around the outer edges of the universe is pretty awesome thought to me. I don't really know anything about physics so I thought Id ask you guys about it.

As an avid fan of Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe and the book in the series, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, it would be nice to think that some advanced civilization could think of a way around both ends, big bang and big crunch, but (speaking as a novice) I suspect that it would take a universe sized energy (or, in Douglas Adams' speak, something really really big) to achieve this. For one thing, I think the tidal forces would be next to impossible to overcome. But at a more scientific level (from this layman :wink: ) it's not that space (and all the junk that's in it) would expand and contract, but spacetime, which would be mighty hard to stand aside from.
 
Where can i learn more about why they believe it to be this way? I am still just having a hard time believing in this idea without understanding more about it. To me, the idea that the universe just popped into existence is as hard to swallow as an omnipotent being creating it.

What do I google? LCDM?
 
Kalantir said:
Where can i learn more about why they believe it to be this way? I am still just having a hard time believing in this idea without understanding more about it. To me, the idea that the universe just popped into existence is as hard to swallow as an omnipotent being creating it.

What do I google? LCDM?

Googling isn't likely to be a very effective way of learning about relativity and cosmology. I would suggest starting by learning special relativity. You can't really understand cosmology without understanding relativity, and special relativity is easier to start with than general relativity. A good book to start with is Takeuchi, An Illustrated Guide to Relativity. If you dig into that and have questions, feel free to post in the relativity forum, and we'll be happy to try to help!

-Ben
 

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