Could someone explain Luders Rule?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Lüder's rule in quantum mechanics, particularly its implications for conditional probability in non-Boolean logic scenarios, such as the two-slit experiment and the EPR situation. Participants seek to understand the practical significance of the rule beyond its mathematical formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a chapter from "The Structure and Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" that discusses conditional probability in quantum mechanics and introduces Lüder's rule as a means to explain causal anomalies.
  • Another participant explains that Lüder's rule describes how a density matrix changes after measuring an observable, emphasizing that the resulting state is not simply the projection onto an eigenstate due to the non-orthogonality of the contributing states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion does not appear to have reached a consensus, as participants are exploring different aspects of Lüder's rule and its implications without resolving all uncertainties or disagreements.

Contextual Notes

Participants express a desire for a practical understanding of Lüder's rule, indicating that the mathematical details may not fully convey its significance in real-world applications.

TimH
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I'm reading The Structure and Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics by Hughes. He has a chapter where he develops an account of conditional probability in QM which he uses to explain the two-slit experiment and the EPR (singlet state) situation. Basically the idea is that this conditional probability function allows for talk of conditional probability in situations where the logic in non-Boolean (i.e. incompatible observables). Conditional probability is the probability of event A given that event B occurs. The rule he gives is in terms of density operators in Hilbert space and he refers to it as Luders rule (with umlauts over the u).

Anyway he argues that the rule has many very useful consequences in terms of explaining the "causal anomalies" of QM. I would really like to understand what this rule is really saying in practical terms (i.e. not just the math). Any help appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Let's say you have a system which is comprised of a mixture of states. The way you describe this system is via a density matrix, which tells you how much of each state you have in the total system.

Now, if you measure some observable S, as a result, you will have one of the eigenstates si of the operator S, right? The Lüder's rule is telling you how the density matrix changes after this measurement. This matrix is not simply |si><si| as one might expect because the states building up the total system before the measurement need not be orthogonal, so more than one state can contribute to the result si.
 
Necropost alert!

This thread is more than nine years old. According to his profile (click on his username), TimH was last "seen" here six years ago.
 
jtbell said:
Necropost alert!

This thread is more than nine years old. According to his profile (click on his username), TimH was last "seen" here six years ago.
Maybe he will wake up frozen in the arctic circle in 70 years and return to PF!
 

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