Could Stellar Black Holes Account for Half of Dark Matter in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothesis that stellar black holes could account for a significant portion of dark matter in the universe. Participants explore the implications of this idea on current models of galaxy formation and dark matter distribution, as well as the visibility of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if half of the dark matter were composed of stellar black holes, it could imply a greater number of stellar black holes than currently anticipated, potentially altering the mass composition of the universe.
  • Another participant argues that mass concentrated at a point in the center of a galaxy would not explain observed anomalies, which suggest an excess of mass in a halo around galaxies.
  • Some participants propose that stellar black holes could be distributed throughout a galaxy rather than being concentrated at the center.
  • A claim is made that the scenario of stellar black holes accounting for dark matter has been largely ruled out by observations, referencing a specific source.
  • There is a discussion about the visibility of black holes, with one participant asserting that black holes are very visible and have a distinctive radio signature, while others counter that only those near matter would be detectable, suggesting that many could remain invisible.
  • Concerns are raised about the existence of black holes in regions of the galaxy that are not conducive to their formation, questioning the conditions necessary for their presence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the role of stellar black holes in dark matter and their visibility, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific observational data and interpretations, which are not universally accepted among participants. The discussion includes references to external sources that may not be agreed upon by all contributors.

Imax
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Twenty first century dark matter reminds me of ninetieth century luminiferous aether. Without dark matter, current models of galaxies fall apart. What could happen if some of that dark matter mass was from stellar black holes?

The supermasssive black hole at the center of our galaxy, the Milky Way, is about 10% the mass of our galaxy. In current models, the universe is made up of about 5% matter, the stuff we can see, about 25% dark matter, the stuff we can’t see, and about 75% dark energy.

What would happen to current models if half the dark matter mass (i.e. 10% of the universe) was from stellar black holes? To me, that could mean that there could be a lot more stellar black holes than anticipated from the current model. It could mean that stellar back hole mass is about twice the mass of the universe as we can observe.

Within this model, the universe could be made up of about 5% matter, about 10% stellar black holes, about 15% dark matter, and about 75% dark energy.
 
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1] Mass concentrated at a point at the centre of a galaxy would not explain the anomalies. The anomalies suggest an excess of mass in a halo including the outer reaches of the galaxy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_problem
2] Contrary to popular belief, black holes are very visible and have a distinctive radio signature.
 
Stellar black holes would not be concentrated to a center, but could be distributed throughout a galaxy.
 
Imax said:
Stellar black holes would not be concentrated to a center, but could be distributed throughout a galaxy.

OK. And point 2?
 
The supermasssive black hole at the center of our galaxy, the Milky Way, is about 10% the mass of our galaxy.

Where do you get this? Going by the wikipedia values, Sgr A* is about 4*10^6 solar masses, while the Milky Way is something like 7*10^11 solar masses.
 
Imax said:
Twenty first century dark matter reminds me of ninetieth century luminiferous aether.

There is a big difference between the aether and DM. The aether, when we went looking for it, was conspicuously absent, in that predictions using the model failed when it came to actual observation. Predictions based on the DM model however keep bearing fruit.
 
DaveC426913 said:
2) Contrary to popular belief, black holes are very visible and have a distinctive radio signature.

Possibly, but only for those black holes near matter. Other black holes could be invisible, with no distinct radio signature.
 
Imax said:
Possibly, but only for those black holes near matter. Other black holes could be invisible, with no distinct radio signature.

All of them? That'd be a neat trick. The galaxy is permeated with dust and gas. Where in the galaxy are all thse expanses of uncharacteristically hard vacuum that these black holes gather?
 
  • #10
Imax said:
Possibly, but only for those black holes near matter. Other black holes could be invisible, with no distinct radio signature.

Also, does not the process of black hole formation necessitate that they exist in a nebulous environment?
 

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