Countable But Not Second Countable Topological Space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of countable topological spaces that are not second countable. Participants explore examples and theoretical implications related to countability and second countability in topology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests an example of a countable space that is not second countable or a proof that countable implies second countable.
  • Another participant provides an example using the countable set \mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N} with a specific topology, claiming it does not have a countable base at (0,0), thus not being first or second countable.
  • A different example is proposed involving the set X = \mathbb{N} \cup \{\mathbb{N}\} with a topology defined using a free ultrafilter, which also lacks a countable base at \{\mathbb{N}\}.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about whether a countable space can be first countable but not second countable, leading to a consideration of the implications of first countability on second countability.
  • The same participant later concludes that a countable, first countable space must be second countable, though this conclusion is presented as a personal reflection rather than an established fact.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple examples of countable spaces that are not second countable, indicating a lack of consensus on the broader implications of countability in topology. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between first countability and second countability.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions about the nature of topological bases and ultrafilters that are not fully explored. The implications of first countability on second countability are debated but not definitively resolved.

Nolen Ryba
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I'm wondering if someone can furnish me with either an example of a topological space that is countable (cardinality) but not second countable or a proof that countable implies second countable. Thanks.
 
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Take the countable set \mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}. Topologize it by making any set that doesn't contain (0,0) open, and if a set does contain (0,0), it's open iff it contains all but a finite number of points in all but a finite number of columns. (Draw a picture. If an open set contains (0,0), then it can only miss infinitely many points in a finite number of columns, while it misses finitely many points in all the other columns.)

Now this topology doesn't have a countable base at (0,0), so it's not first countable let alone second countable.

Source: Steen & Seebach, Counterexamples in Topology, page 54. They call it the Arens-Fort Space.
 
Thanks! I own that book so I'll be having a look pretty soon.
 
I've been thinking about this a little bit more, and I believe I have another example, although it's a bit more 'sophisticated' in that it requires a bit of advanced set theory.

This time our countable set is X = \mathbb{N} \cup \{\mathbb{N}\}. Take any free ultrafilter F on \mathbb{N}, and define a topology on X by letting each subset {n} of \mathbb{N} be open, and defining nbhds of \left{\mathbb{N}\right} to be those of the form \{\mathbb{N}\} \cup U, where U is in F. As in the previous example, this topology fails to have a countable base at \left{\mathbb{N}\right} (because we cannot have a countable base for any free ultrafilter on the naturals), so again it fails to be first countable.

Edit:
Hmm... Now I'm wondering if there's a countable space that's first countable but not second countable!

Edit2:
Maybe that was silly. If X is countable and has a first countable topology, then the union of the bases at each of its points is the countable union of countable sets and is hence countable (and a basis for the topology). So, I'm lead to conclude that a countable, first countable space is necessarily second countable.
 
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