Creating black holes through relative motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of creating black holes through relative motion, exploring the implications of increasing relative velocity on mass and the Schwarzschild radius. Participants examine theoretical scenarios regarding the conditions under which an object could become a black hole, the nature of kinetic energy, and the effects of the universe's expansion on black hole formation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that as relative velocity increases, mass also increases, leading to the possibility of accelerating away from an object to a velocity that makes its Schwarzschild radius larger than the object, potentially creating a black hole.
  • Others argue that if the energy used to accelerate an object is already stored in the system, then the system was a black hole to begin with, while external energy could lead to black hole formation due to the addition of mass-energy.
  • There are claims that kinetic energy is not contained within a moving object but is a result of the relative motion between objects, complicating the idea of black hole formation through relative velocity.
  • Some participants question whether an object would collapse into a singularity if it reached a certain velocity and whether it would remain a black hole if the observer's relative speed changed.
  • One participant asserts that black holes are not singularities and that relative motion does not create black holes, suggesting a need to differentiate between invariant and relativistic mass.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the terminology used and expresses gratitude for the discussion, indicating a search for further literature on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the relationship between relative motion and black hole formation, with no consensus reached on the validity of the claims made. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of kinetic energy and the conditions necessary for black hole creation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of mass and energy, as well as unresolved questions about the nature of kinetic energy in relation to black holes. The discussion also highlights the complexity of applying relativistic concepts to Newtonian physics.

A.I.
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My question is threefold, the second is based on the premise that the first is true, and the third is based on the other two.

1. As relative velocity increases, mass also increases, correct? In this case, could you accelerate away from an object to a velocity fast enough to make its schwartzchild radius larger than the object, creating a black hole?

2. Would this object then collapse in upon itself so that if you slowed down to zero speed relative to the object, it would still be a black hole?

3. Will the outward acceleration of the universe ultimately result in the formation of black holes due to the very high velocity of objects relative to one another?EDIT: one factor I did not account for, in retrospect, is the deformation of an object at high speeds-- I read a little bit about this, but I don't know exactly where to go with it. Black holes have no hair, right?
 
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A.I. said:
My question is threefold, the second is based on the premise that the first is true, and the third is based on the other two.

1. As relative velocity increases, mass also increases, correct? In this case, could you accelerate away from an object fast enough that its schwartzchild radius would be larger than the object, creating a black hole?

If the energy used to accelerate the object was already stored in the system to begin with, then that system was already a black hole to begin with. If the energy used to accelerate the object was added from some external source, then the system would become a black hole simply because you poured a massive amount of energy into it.

A.I. said:
2. Would this object then collapse in upon itself so that if you slowed down to zero speed relative to the object, it would still be a black hole?

Kinetic energy is not "in" the moving object. Its "in" the relative motion of two or more objects. Consider that you cannot extract kinetic energy from an object that happens to be moving relative to you unless you use some machine to extract it, and that machine must connect to the object AND connect to a massive object stationary to you.

A.I. said:
3. Will the outward acceleration of the universe ultimately result in the formation of black holes due to the very high velocity of objects relative to one another?

No, because of the previous answers.
 
What if the energy was from a rocket, stored in chemical potential energy? Then the kinetic energy to generate the motion would be coming from an internal source, so the total energy of the system would be constant, wouldn't it?

And then if you sustained that velocity, wouldn't the black hole collapse into a singularity or something?

I think you may have answered my question-- but I guess I don't exactly understand.
 
A black hole is a singularity, we just call it a black hole because we can't see it with the naked eye.

1. As relative velocity increases, mass also increases, correct? In this case, could you accelerate away from an object to a velocity fast enough to make its schwartzchild radius larger than the object, creating a black hole?

From Schwartzild's theory, yes, you can in theory create a black hole, however you would need immense mass and go close to/faster than the speed of light to make it able to collapse into a singularity.

2. Would this object then collapse in upon itself so that if you slowed down to zero speed relative to the object, it would still be a black hole?

If an object turns into a singularity, then it would remain a singularity, no matter what speed the observer holds; when you see a tree, even if you run around the tree as fast as you can, you will still see a tree, however you get very dizzy.

3. Will the outward acceleration of the universe ultimately result in the formation of black holes due to the very high velocity of objects relative to one another?

Unless all objects in space could accelerate faster than the speed of light, then yes, everything in the universe would be able to collapse into a singularity, however, this is so unlikely to happen as if Bill Gates were to die right now and pick me out of a random line of 6 billion people to receive all his money and all of his corperations.
 
1. Black hole IS NOT a singularity
2. Relative motion DOES NOT create black holes
For more info, check the difference between the invariant and the relativistic mass
 
Ah right I mis-spoke, I meant to say wouldn't the object collapse into a black hole, not wouldn't the black hole collapse into a singularity. WHoops

Anyway, I refined my question and did a google search for "relativistic mass and schwartzchild radius" and came away with a few pieces of literature.
I guess you can't take relativistic mass and use it in Newtonian physics :P I think that's where I went wrong.
Anyway thank you all for your help.
 
Anyway, I refined my question and did a google search for "relativistic mass and schwartzchild radius" and came away with a few pieces of literature.
Here's what I get:
Google said:
Did you mean: "relativistic mass and schwarzschild radius"
 
That's because I mis-spelled schwarzschild in my post.
 

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