Dark Energy Changing Into Dark Matter.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between dark energy and dark matter, specifically the hypothesis that dark energy could transform into dark matter particles. Participants explore implications for the universe's expansion and the nature of matter-antimatter asymmetry.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if regular energy can turn into matter, dark energy might also convert into dark matter, potentially affecting the universe's expansion rate.
  • Others argue that dark energy and dark matter are fundamentally distinct concepts, with no established connection between them.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of certain claims regarding electron pair production, with participants stating that such processes are forbidden within the standard model of particle physics.
  • There is a discussion about the terminology used for dark matter and dark energy, with some suggesting that different naming conventions could reduce confusion.
  • Participants debate the implications of charge conservation and its relevance to the proposed hypotheses about matter-antimatter asymmetry.
  • Some participants call for references to support claims made about matter-antimatter symmetry violation and express surprise at the push-back received on these topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are multiple competing views regarding the relationship between dark energy and dark matter, as well as the validity of claims about electron pair production and charge conservation.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the nature of dark energy and dark matter, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of charge conservation and the specifics of matter-antimatter asymmetry.

hankaaron
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If our regular Energy can spontaneously turn into matter (for instance an electron and a positron pair OR, more rarely two electrons pair) why can't Dark Energy turn into Dark Matter particles?

If that's what actually happens then wouldn't the universe eventually decelerate expansion. Shouldn't it at least call into question the common consensus that the universe will expand into cold freeze?
 
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Aside from their names being similar, dark energy and dark matter are not related, as far as we know.
 
hankaaron said:
OR, more rarely two electrons pair)
Not just rare, this is forbidden and does not happen a) within the standard model or any extensions I know of and b) in any experiment performed to date.

As matterwave says, DM and DE are quite distinct concepts apart from their names. A quick perusing of the wiki. articles of each should give you some more info to see how they are not (at least in any trivial way) related to one another.
 
DM could easily have been termed 'Zwicky' matter and DE termed 'Einstein' energy. That would have averted many of the illusionary issues invoked by the more romantic prefix 'dark'. Fortunately, the term dark cosmic microwave background radiation never caught on.
 
Last edited:
Chronos said:
Fortunately, the term dark cosmic microwave background radiation never caught on.

I'm sure it was just an oversite Chronos. I'll send in the paperwork to copyright "Dark CMBR" asap.
 
Nabeshin said:
Not just rare, this is forbidden and does not happen a) within the standard model or any extensions I know of and b) in any experiment performed to date.

Electron pair, rather than, electron-positron pair is an acceptable hypothesis to explain why our universe is filled with matter instead of anti-matter.
 
hankaaron said:
Electron pair, rather than, electron-positron pair is an acceptable hypothesis to explain why our universe is filled with matter instead of anti-matter.

You need to back this up with acceptable references.

Physics Forums rules, to which everyone agrees when they register,

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=414380,

in part, state
Overly Speculative Posts: One of the main goals of PF is to help students learn the current status of physics as practiced by the scientific community; accordingly, Physicsforums.com strives to maintain high standards of academic integrity. There are many open questions in physics, and we welcome discussion on those subjects provided the discussion remains intellectually sound. It is against our Posting Guidelines to discuss, in the PF forums or in blogs, new or non-mainstream theories or ideas that have not been published in professional peer-reviewed journals or are not part of current professional mainstream scientific discussion. Non-mainstream or personal theories will be deleted.
 
hankaaron said:
Electron pair, rather than, electron-positron pair is an acceptable hypothesis
If all it says is that electron pairs and electron-positron pairs are produced it isn't really a hypothesis, it is more like a restriction on types of hypotheses you find plausible, i.e., it is an idea rather than a hypothesis (scientific hypotheses must provide quantitative predictions). The problem is, charge conservation is a well-tested idea that is mutually exclusive with yours. (Your idea implies non-conservation of charge because any process that starts with a certain amount of charge and can end with either an electron-electron pair or an electron-positron pair would end with a different amount of charge than it started with for one of the two results.)

Furthermore, the ratio of positive to negative charge in large objects is known indistinguishable from 1 (to extremely high precision). So, even if charge conservation were violated it could not explain the existence of the overwhelming majority of matter (note that dark matter and dark energy are known to effectively not have any charge associated with them since they have not been observed to interact with electric and magnetic fields in the form of light).
 
  • #10
hankaaron said:
Okay. http://www.space.com/8441-exist-matter-wins-battle-antimatter.html

I can find more, but I'm really surprised to get so much push-back on matter-antimatter symmetry violation.

It looks like you didn't even read the article you are citing. Quote:

Specifically, physicists discovered a 1 percent difference between pairs of muons and antimuons that arise from the decay of particles known as B mesons.

This does NOT imply charge conservation is broken, which you seem to suggest. In each given decay, charge is conserved. What is being discussed in the article, and in general, is that the two processes, the original X and the one containing antiparticles X' occur at slightly different rates, leading to an asymmetry in antimatter and matter.

Nobody is disputing this asymmetry, although the details of how this arose are not known (i.e. processes like the one mentioned in your article are not sufficient to explain it). The fact is that charge conservation is a very sacred conservation law, and we have no reason to doubt it.
 

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