Darkness-Free Day: A Sign of Jesus's Birth?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a scriptural claim that the day before Jesus's birth would be characterized by the absence of darkness. Participants explore the implications of this claim, questioning its feasibility and considering various astronomical phenomena that could explain such an event.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the nature of the event described in scripture, seeking a name or explanation for a day without darkness.
  • Others reference the phenomenon of the midnight sun, noting its occurrence in polar regions but questioning its relevance to the scriptural claim.
  • A few participants argue that no such event has occurred in the Americas, with one suggesting that the author of the scripture might have lived in Alaska.
  • There is speculation about whether a massive solar flare or a supernova could cause a day without darkness, though some participants express skepticism about these possibilities.
  • One participant suggests that the account may be allegorical rather than literal, pointing out the use of parables in biblical texts.
  • Concerns are raised about the scientific validity of the claims made in scripture, with references to the Bible not being a reliable source of scientific knowledge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the scriptural claim or its scientific implications. Multiple competing views remain regarding the feasibility of a day without darkness and the interpretation of the scripture.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the historical and scientific accuracy of the claims made in scripture, with discussions highlighting the limitations of interpreting ancient texts through a modern scientific lens.

moonman239
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I have a question. There is a section in my book of scripture that states that the day before Jesus's birth there would be no darkness. Is there a name/explanation for such an event?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_sun

The sun doesn't set for up to months at a time due to the angle of the Earth on its axis.

However, it's only in the high north and south latitudes. Nothing to do with anything so far as a "book of scriptures" goes.
At the poles themselves, the sun only rises once and sets once, each year. During the six months when the sun is above the horizon at the poles, the sun spends the days constantly moving around the horizon, reaching its highest circuit of the sky at the summer solstice.
 
moonman239 said:
Yeah, I looked at that article. I do have to mention that we're talking about an event that happened in the Americas.

No such event has ever happened in the Americas.
 
What about Canada and Alaska ? Aren't they considered to be a part of Americas ?
 
yaang said:
What about Canada and Alaska ? Aren't they considered to be a part of Americas ?

Under the continents yes, but I know the 'event' he is referring to in South America so I'm speaking in terms of North / South America. Apologies, I should have been more specific.
 
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jarednjames said:
No such event has ever happened in the Americas.


I guess it could be that whoever wrote that lived in Alaska.
 
moonman239 said:
I guess it could be that whoever wrote that lived in Alaska.

Well, if it is just a general event then quite possibly, but I don't hold up much for biblical tales.

And technically, that would mean a new Jesus was born every day for a few months of the year. :rolleyes:
 
yaang said:
What about Canada and Alaska ? Aren't they considered to be a part of Americas?

I think that would be correct.
 
  • #10
Uh, unless the happy event took place in Antarctica --Which wasn't discovered for at least another millennium-- the only explanation would be akin to a mega-flare or 'daylight' supernova, which phenomenon is sadly lacking from the historical record...
 
  • #11
So does this mean that Jesus and Santa Claus are the same ?
 
  • #12
Hmm, that would mean a new santa claus is born each day for six months at the north pole.

It certainly adds credibility to his supposed ability of getting around millions of children in one night... :smile:
 
  • #13
Perhaps if the poles shift to somewhere else on the world, this midnight sun would start to happen there...
 
  • #14
darkside00 said:
Perhaps if the poles shift to somewhere else on the world, this midnight sun would start to happen there...

That wouldn't matter, because the Geographic North Pole would still remain at the same place, what you're referring to is the Magnetic North Pole.
 
  • #15
There so close, if the mag/geo pole shifts, one will follow the other.
 
  • #16
darkside00 said:
There so close, if the mag/geo pole shifts, one will follow the other.

The magnetic poles do shift. You have to correct for this shift when using flight maps to plan a route. They follow are sort of orbital path around true north. And every few thousand years they switch sides (north becomes south, south becomes north). The geo poles certainly don't follow them.

The geo poles are determined by the planets rotation.
 
  • #17
or poles follow Earth's rotation
 
  • #18
darkside00 said:
or poles follow Earth's rotation

What?

If you are referring to the geographical poles, what part of "The geo poles are determined by the planets rotation. " did you not understand?

Or are you referring to magnetic poles in your answer? In which case I refer you to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_of_astronomical_bodies#Magnetic_poles):
Magnetic poles

Planetary magnetic poles are defined analogously to the Earth's magnetic poles: they are the locations on the planet's surface at which the planet's magnetic field lines are vertical. The direction of the field determines whether the pole is a magnetic north or south pole, exactly as on Earth. The Earth's magnetic axis is approximately aligned with its rotational axis, meaning that the magnetic poles are relatively close to the geographic poles. However, this is not necessarily the case for other planets; the magnetic axis of Uranus, for example, is inclined by as much as 60°.

They magnetic poles don't follow the rotation of the planet.
 
  • #19
Darkside: Imagine an ordinary bar magnet sitting on a table. It has magnetic north and south poles. But it isn't moving or rotating so it has nothing like a geographical pole.

If you pick up the magnet, you can rotate it any way you like. If you throw it in the air, you can make it spin until you catch it. You could spin it in a few different ways, and the center of the rotation would be the "geographic pole". The magnetism of the bar would have no effect on how you could spin the bar. (Unless your hands are made of metal or something.)
 
  • #20
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just say Jesus was born in the Americas?
 
  • #21
A_Sabra said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just say Jesus was born in the Americas?

No, he didn't. Without directly quoting, it was along the lines of "when there's a day without darkness, Jesus will be born". I suppose it could be taken as "the next saviour will be born in the Americas".

Location is the least of the problems with that story.
 
  • #22
  • #23
Could a massive solar flare cause enough light to be shown that it wouldn't be dark at night?
 
  • #24
Sam Nanti said:
Could a massive solar flare cause enough light to be shown that it wouldn't be dark at night?

Bluntly, no.

The reason we get night is because the Earth is blocking the light from the sun (we're on the opposite side from the light).

The only way for something like that to happen is for something to reflect the light back at us (like the moon does).
 
  • #25
jarednjames said:
The only way for something like that to happen is for something to reflect the light back at us (like the moon does).

Which rules out a massive asteroid or meteoroid passing close enough to reflect back light for so that long of time, I guess, too.
 
  • #26
Sam Nanti said:
Which rules out a massive asteroid or meteoroid passing close enough to reflect back light for so that long of time, I guess, too.

Well we've all seen the effect a full moon reflecting a lot of light can have - a rather bright night, but nothing close to day.

If there's something that close to match the moons brightness, I assure you that extra light is the least of our worries! :biggrin:
 
  • #27
Why assume this is a literal account? Sounds allegorical to me. Parables were a staple of sayings attributed to jesus. The bible is not a reknowned source of scientific knowledge.
 
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  • #28
Your 'scripture and science' is like 'matter and energy' I guess. One may FEEL the other but not when positions are reversed.
 
  • #29
Chronos said:
Why assume this is a literal account? Sounds allegorical to me. Parables were a staple of sayings attributed to jesus. The bible is not a reknowned source of scientific knowledge.

Agreed, but there's also a difference between being a parable and just fiction.
Jjjxy said:
Your 'scripture and science' is like 'matter and energy' I guess. One may FEEL the other but not when positions are reversed.

I don't understand this. What does it have to do with the OP?
 
  • #30
Hey guys,

Please pardon the bump. I do have one thing to add: The Americas did, according to my book of scripture, witness a sunset. But even after the sunset, it was as bright as day all throughout the night and the next day.
 

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