David Blaine - 17 min breath hold

[malty]

Well, isn't this the same mister Blaine that fasted for forty days and forty nights without eating? Hmm maybe he knows a little bit more about time dilation than we do



Ok seriouslys speaking, two things occurred to me:

• If he was faking it, why chose 17 minutes? Perhaps whatever mechanism he used could only last for about that time.
• Secondly, I was just wondering, if the sphere was spinning would that have any effect on the the oxeygen concentrations or anything else within for that matter? I'm thinking something in the line of the coriolis force causing a parabola that would create some sort of air gap . . .

Yup just speculating :)

 

[maze]

Ok, I just tried this. Hyperventilating for 1 min beforehand, I was able to hold my breath for 2:30 (min:sec) It felt like I probably could have endured the pain and gone to 2:40 or 2:50 if I really pushed it (I stopped when i "made it" to the 30 sec mark). Also, not hyperventilating got me 1:35.

I think with some breathing training, more hyperventilation, and being in better shape, I could get 4 mins no problem. I have no reason to doubt that trained divers could hold their breath for more than 5 minutes. What's more, there apparently is solid evidence that people have indeed held their breath for that long with no permanent damage.

Now as for the 17 minute record, that is out there, but with blood saturated with pure oxygen, training at high altitude for a couple months, and some good genetics, I could believe it.

 

[Alfi]

I started out skeptical and I still am.
But since no one has convinced me that it can't be done,
and no one has shown any evidence for clever contraptions or smoke and mirrors,

I will bend to seeing is believing.

Well Done David.

 

[Isarmann]

I agree with Alfi--- I think this is within the realm of possibility, at least. Maze's experiment establishes the effect, and do keep in mind it would be much more pronounced with pure oxygen. As I understand it, saturating the blood with oxygen is only one part of it (and I've read some who say the less-significant part)--- the bigger thing is blowing off CO2 to delay its buildup as long as possible.

Divers who do mixed-air diving breathe pure oxygen at various depths on their ascent--- not for the sake of the oxygen itself, but to safely rid themselves of nitrogen so they can surface again without having to enter a decompression chamber.

The materials I read claimed that it is CO2 buildup that causes the "hunger" to breathe we all feel, not oxygen starvation.

Just as Alfi said, well done, Mr. Blaine-- especially for apparently choosing something that seems impossible, but is just good science.

 

[DrClapeyron]

Ok, I just tried this.

What you should do now is to see how long you can go after exhaling before you inhale and see how long you can stretch out the inhale. Perhaps you may be able to slowly inhale for 5 minutes and hold your breath for 5 more.

 

[thomasxc]

holding your breath for anywhere near that long requires huge lung capacity and a large heart. lungs can be trained, but they cannot grow. a heart can grow because its obviously a muscle. but if you arent born with the skill, it cannot be honed that well. i am a runner and i dated a competitive swimmer..

 

[kadath]

it's fully possible to hold one's breath for such an extended amount of time. It's known as apnea, where in this case you would voluntarily hold your breath. It's commonly used by divers. Although the hyperventilation technique is one way to take in more oxygen, there is also glossopharyngeal insufflation or lung-packing (where you swallow and force more oxygen into the lungs after they have been filled to capacity). Of course all of this requires extreme mental and physical training. The average person only holds their breath for about 2-3minutes, so just trying to increase that by hyperventilating won't achieve a significant difference. Then you also have to consider water temperature (colder water signals the body to conserve more oxygen, thus lowering our heart rates and redistributing circulation to vital organs- the brain and heart) and internal body space (an empty stomach allows for more space for the lungs to expand). And brain death only occurs if breathing can't resume unaided after a certain amount of time.

 

[Hydroshock]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this?? I didn't read everyone's comments, but you can also hold your breath longer when you're underwater (something with your body's functions knows to start being conservative with oxygen). Same as the water is colder.

 

[rsq_a]

This is not a truly reliable source (again, what is?), but http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1736834,00.html magazine did confirm the feat. This, in addition to the fact that it is recognized as an official world record leads me to lean on the side that there wasn't any 'trickery' involved. Just lots of training and other tricks (like the consumption of oxygen beforehand).

 

[wolram]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/aug/10/germany.kateconnolly

 

[ChadRichens]

Here is some of the youtube video. Apparently the GB of world records was near that time too, so I guess it's possible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A_BjAijqag8

"This video is no longer available due to a Copywrite Claim by Harpo Inc."

>.>
The world will never know!

 

[flatmaster]

i once held my breath for 30 seconds in our local swimming pool...so maybe he did do it...YEH GO DAVID GO DAVID!

Repeat n times

n/2 = 17

n = 34

 

[mplayer]

I think it's time for us all to convert to Blanetology.

twaaaa

 

[nottheone]

If you like Blaine's street magic, watch Angel make himself up to look like Blaine and do his street tricks only better, it's pretty funny. Like the levitation trick. He gets way up in the air and then falls down acting sick, hilarious.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm confused about the believers here. This guy is a professional illusionist. Suddenly he takes up freediving and you think he is the best in the world at it?

Occam's Razor applies here.

 

[Fizikas]

Magicians are those people who can make other people believe that wha they are doint is real.

 

[Doom of Doom]

I think that what is important to remember is that Blaine is acting in this sense as an "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blaine" " and not necessarily a magician (although showmanship is important either way). To me, silly magic tricks (I mean COME ON Chris Angel, your stuff is rather silly. Stop paying actors and do a real trick.) are rather lame, and dramatized feats of endurance seem to me to be more interesting due to their creativity.

An interesting fact to note is that he performs less than a year on average, giving him plenty of time to recover from the last stunt and prepare and train his body for the next feat. Some of of his feats have been seemingly 'debunked' (ie. many angry witnesses at the "Hanging Upside-Down for 60 Hours Stunt" saw him cheating [http://forums.starnewsonline.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6431032365/m/7371081577/inc/-1" ]).

But, some of his past feats have been simple and believable, if not creative stunts such as

• standing on a pillar for 35 hours straight without eating anything

• holding his breath underwater for 7 mins 8 secs (which by the way did not break the world record at the time of 8 min 58 secs) after being submerged in water for a week straight. (Also: an interesting quote from the Wikipedia article:

  Blaine spoke of the week-long fasting he did before the "drowning alive" stunt, to avoid having to be concerned with defecation.[/QUOTE

• being spun around in a gyroscope for 16 hours straight

In any event, I'm a fan of him for testing the limits of human endurance if nothing else than for the sake of science.

And finally, since the previous record of "hold your breath under water after breathing in pure oxygen in before hand" was 16 mins, I'm inclined to believe this 17 mins stunt.

 

[Gistry]

I am here to say it is impossible to hold one's breath for as long as David Blaine claimed. The clues to it being an illusion are the shape of the tank (What is the difference between a sphere and a cube?); he provided his own water (curious,eh?... like Oprah didn't have water); his heart rate didn't decrease for all his meditation (as seen in any Indian guru worth his salt); he had a heart rate monitor, but not a breathing monitor; he wore a very stiff wetsuit (around the chest); he is an illusionist; and, the clincher, I saw a (video recorded) mouse in a beaker do the very same trick many years ago with no training or meditation. Oh, yeah, the "water" was cold, but that wasn't the only reason for the wetsuit. Would he need to train his chest muscles? Yes, but not for the reasons most people think.

What was said on Oprah was technically correct (at least for the most part, as much as I watched.) Have no doubt, what he did was dangerous. The little mouse experiments had one nasty side effect... the animals tended to die after they were withdrawn from the liquid. These days, the submersion technique has been used in experimental medical practice. It is VERY expensive and dangerous, but better than the early days. The expense of David's illusion wasn't in the tank, but in the "water."

After his Oprah appearance, I wrote on her discussion group about why it wasn't real (without giving away his illusion) and caused a real furor among true believers of the silly stuff, then left town to be with my ill son. When I came back, there were messages from her producers wanting me to be either on the show or at least in a discussion (I can't remember which.) Too bad, I was too late.

I did write to one of her producers and tell them specifically how the illusion was done, but did not post it in the forum. Although David Blaine did perform an illusion, I think it was inventive and imaginative. That was the same thing I thought when I saw the mouse do it... cool, it would make a good trick! I guarantee you that if you tied a cement block to Blaine's feet and tossed him into the deep end of a regular pool, like in Sopranos, oxygen loading or not, he'd be clawing for the surface and sputtering in no time.

My background includes a Biology degree, scuba diving, former distance runner (for fun) and, decades ago, being a dabbler in "magic." To find the answer, keep in mind it is IMPOSSIBLE to hold one's breath as long as he claimed (especially when the heart is beating like a teenage boy seeing a cute girl). I think half the fun of illusions is figuring out how they are done.

 

[rsq_a]

My background includes a Biology degree, scuba diving, and, decades ago, being a dabbler in "magic." To find the answer, keep in mind it is IMPOSSIBLE to hold one's breath as long as he claimed (especially when the heart is beating like a teenage boy seeing a cute girl).

It seems established that some people can hold their breath for longer than 15 minutes with various tricks and whatever. There is a Guinness record http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2008/02/080229.aspx.

You're saying that it's all fake?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hello Gistry,
I pasted your updated post in place of your first post and deleted the duplication.

 

[Alfi]

The longest time that someone has held their breath voluntarily is 16 min 13 sec, and was achieved by Tom Sietas (Germany) in a swimming pool on the set of Lo show dei record in Madrid, Spain, on 23 February 2008.

Wonder why it's done in a pool. It would seem to me that without the extra water pressure on the lungs one would do better above water.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

I'm always suspicious, but I do believe he "pulled it off", given that he needed the oxygen to even get close to 17 minutes. It's strange to think about how some people learned that they had such a talent.

 

[DaveC426913]

Wonder why it's done in a pool. It would seem to me that without the extra water pressure on the lungs one would do better above water.

How would one convince an audience that they're holding their breath?

 

[Count Iblis]

I've read that people who are trained in holding their breaths reduce their metabolic rates when they hold their breaths. Physical fitness alone is not sufficient to allow someone to hold his/her breath longer than a few minutes.

So, your body must be conditioned to sharply reduce your metabolic rate when oxygen levels drop or CO2 levels increase.

 

[Gistry]

It seems established that some people can hold their breath for longer than 15 minutes with various tricks and whatever. There is a Guinness record http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2008/02/080229.aspx.

You're saying that it's all fake?

(Smiling)... Keep in mind this is a science forum and the Guiness Book of Records and Time magazine are not scientific journals. Also, note that the Guiness record for Blaine has an asterisk. As entertainment and semi-news publications, they are NOT reliable sources for scientific observations or conclusions.

examine the evidence and assumptions made in connection with David Blaine. Illusionists fool people with assumptions and misdirection. The assumptions are David held his breath, under water, for an extended length of time which far exceeded normal people's ability. Other assumptions are David told the truth about why he did the things he did and used the things he used.

We'll start with the tank. David made a big deal about the specially made sphere and the expense. I have to ask, why a sphere? David had a cubical tank that he had used in other performances. So why not use that? What is the difference between a sphere and a cube? Don't say shape!

Then, in a pre-performance ad, Oprah made a big deal about David providing his own water. Why would he do that? Like Oprah doesn't have water. Don't be distracted by the salinity story. Remember that in illusions, things aren't always what they appear to be. Is there something that looks like water, moves like water, but isn't water? Short answer... yes.

Another misdirection was the explanation that the water was cold because cold decreases the oxygen requirements for the body/brain, as in cold water drownings. So, why the wetsuit, which would completely counteract the effect of the cold water on the physiology of the body, thus negating the "benefits" of cold water on oxygen demands. The wetsuit could be used for camophlague of chest movements and to counter the cold, because it was cold, as is the nature of the "water."

Back to the breath holding... knowing it is impossible for you or anyone you know to hold one's breath for so long, what other possibilities are there. Oh, yeah... breathing! ;) But, if he was breathing air, there would be bubbles. No bubbles, so it wasn't air. Can something other than air be breathed? Yes, just ask the mouse in the beaker. (Reference previous post.)

Why didn't Blaine's heart rate decrease to a reasonable rate, to at least something that might indicate he had trained to relax himself and preserve oxygen. His heart rate remained high throughout the performance. Why? Why would a person's heart rate remain high? Could it be he was exerting himself? Short answer... yes. But, don't be distracted by the reason he would like you to believe, that the exertion was from holding his breath. If the exertion wasn't from holding his breath, what was it from? Could it be breathing? Short answer... yes. (Reference the stiff upper body wetsuit and the mouse in the beaker. I reiterate he wasn't breathing air.)

If he really wanted to prove he was breath holding, why not use a monitor to register chest movements (inhalation/exhalation)? Instead, he used a monitor for his heart rate, which proved he was working hard during his performance, when he should have been relaxing to preserve oxygen.

Where was the "trick" part of the performance art? The trick was in the preparation and when he entered and exited the tank. The misdirection was the "patter," including the misdirection that the tank contained water. The illusion was that he wasn't breathing. That's as much as I can tell you without telling you the solution (pun). This was a great trick and difficult to pull off, because he had to overcome basic human instincts and fears. It was hazardous, but not for the reasons people were misdirected to believe. Find the mouse and you'll find your answers.

 

[Count Iblis]

Blaine inhaled pure oxygen, so he had 5 times more oxygen in his lungs than he could normally have. According to this article:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1736834,00.html

Blaine failed the record attempt for breath holding without breathing pure oxygen which at that time was at 8 minutes and 58 seconds.


The record for breath holding without breathing in pure oxygen has just been broken:

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=10499440

The new mark belongs to Stephane Mifsud.

He stayed underwater while holding his breath for 11 minutes and 35 seconds, and there's a catch, this attempt was an international discipline known as static apnea, simply put, it means you cannot use oxygen before the attempt.

 

[bassplayer142]

On a second thought of this, wouldn't slowing your heart rate substancially help to hold your breath longer?