Death by Shockwave: Effects of Naval Cannons in 1800s

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of shockwaves generated by naval cannon fire during the 1800s, particularly in the context of naval battles. Participants explore the potential for sailors to be injured or killed by the shockwave of cannonballs that passed close to them, rather than by direct impact. The conversation touches on historical accounts, the physics of shockwaves, and the conditions of naval warfare during that era.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the likelihood of significant shockwaves from Napoleonic era cannons, citing low muzzle velocities and the practice of skipping cannonballs across the battlefield.
  • Another participant provides historical context, noting that injuries from cannon fire often resulted from the blast effects rather than direct hits, referencing accounts of abdominal ruptures among gun crews.
  • There is a discussion about the differences in cannon technology between the Napoleonic era and later naval artillery, with one participant comparing the two as vastly different in terms of power and design.
  • Some participants speculate on the effects of shockwaves in water, suggesting that a cannonball striking water could produce significant damage due to the incompressibility of water compared to air.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for shockwaves to cause injury to gun crews, with one participant suggesting that the muzzle blast could be disabling at close range.
  • There is skepticism about the validity of historical accounts of deaths caused by shockwaves, with some participants calling for more evidence or questioning the accuracy of such claims.
  • One participant mentions the phenomenon of hydrostatic shock, suggesting it could explain injuries in specific contexts, although this remains a point of contention.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the likelihood and mechanisms of shockwave injuries, with no consensus reached. Some participants are skeptical of the claims regarding shockwave effects, while others propose that there may be some validity to the accounts of injuries caused by shockwaves.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in historical accounts and the understanding of medical conditions at the time, which complicate the interpretation of injuries attributed to shockwaves. There is also mention of the need for more precise definitions and clarity regarding the physics involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to historians of naval warfare, physics enthusiasts exploring the effects of shockwaves, and those studying the medical implications of historical injuries in combat scenarios.

  • #31
Ok, we are now mixing up the shockwaves from explosions, supersonic jets and passing ordnance.

I believe the question that needs to be answered is the following: What velocity would a projectile need to have in order to generate a shockwave similar in magnitude to that produced by explosion that is capable of killing solely by it's shockwave.

The answer is most likely, faster than fast.
 
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  • #33
another possisble mechanism

my husband read the same incident as 1oldman in a history of Nelson's Trafalgar (1805). He told me about it and I was "shocked" LOL because as a physician I could not understand the mechanism of injury. I agree that the cavitation of cerebral vessels could definitely account for the sudden death described. Also refer to a condition called "commotio cordis". Knowing the whiffle bat risk, let me say that I found my first reference to this in Wikipedia. Anyway, even though commotio cordis is described as being caused by blunt trauma, I think it reasonable to consider a shockwave as an instrument of blunt trauma. My husband personally experienced shockwave/blunt trauma as a police officer, when he was shot at close range by a hi-powered pistol while wearing body armor. Two things seem to have saved his life: the ballistic Lexan clipboard that the bullet penetrated before hitting his chest, and the impact didn't occur in that window of vulnerability (see the Wikipedia article). The bruise lasted a month!
 
  • #34
Deat by Shockwave

Uptherebels, thank you for that wonderfully professional explanation to the possible causes of dearth by shockwave and to the reference to commotio cordis in wikipedia. Now all I have to do is find out if Dr. Frysinger agrees that said cannon ball could produce the required shockwave. :smile: