Decreasing entropy of the universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of entropy in the universe, particularly the possibility of decreasing entropy if the universe is part of a larger system. Participants explore theoretical models, such as the Steinhardt-Turok cyclic model and M-theory, while questioning the implications of the universe being a closed system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the universe is part of a larger system, it might allow for a decrease in entropy, challenging the notion that entropy must always increase in a closed system.
  • Another participant emphasizes that this idea is speculative and notes the current scientific consensus that the universe is considered a closed system, which complicates the discussion of entropy reduction.
  • There is a reference to the Steinhardt-Turok cyclic model, which posits that our universe could be a 3-brane in a higher-dimensional space, potentially allowing interactions with other universes.
  • One participant questions whether known aspects of M-theory could support the idea of decreasing entropy, highlighting the lack of direct evidence for such theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the universe as a closed system and the implications for entropy. There is no consensus on whether the universe can decrease in entropy or if the theoretical models discussed provide a valid framework for this possibility.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the definitions of closed systems and the speculative nature of the theories mentioned. There is an acknowledgment of the lack of direct evidence for the models being discussed.

cansay27
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I'm not sure whether this belongs in this topic or Beyond the Standard Model.

I was reading through various articles and threads on this site when I had an epiphany, and now I am curious to see if it could work.

The biggest influence on the fate of the universe is its entropy. Because there is no way to decrease the entropy of a closed system, it must keep increasing until the universe runs out of available energy. My question is this: Could our universe's entropy decrease if it was a part of a much larger system, allowing heat death to be avoided?
Reading the Steinhardt-Turok cyclic model of the universe, I learned that our universe might be a 3-brane floating in a 5-brane, and that other universes could easily coexist just a few Planck lengths away. If there was some particle (dark matter perhaps) that could travel from one brane to the next, is it possible for that particle to carry energy into our brane?

Please forgive me if I am overlooking any details. I am a high school student who is interested in physics, but don't have enough knowledge to figure these things out for myself.
 
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IF the universe is NOT a closed system, then the laws of thermodynamics would agree with the possibility of deacreasing the entropy of the universe. However, this is highly speculative, so don't assume this to be true or try to push it to be true or anything like that. We have zero evidence for this. CURRENTLY, science believes that the universe is a closed system. It doesn't usually help anything to talk about possibilities without some kind of evidence.
 
Well plenty of work has been done on M-theory and we have no direct evidence of this, either. According to known knowledge on M-theory, does this work? I guess this is a better question.
 
cansay27 said:
Well plenty of work has been done on M-theory and we have no direct evidence of this, either. According to known knowledge on M-theory, does this work? I guess this is a better question.

I don't see why not.
 

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