olde drunk said:
my kind sir, we do not know the sun is in the sky!
it is highly, probable that the sun we experience is an energy - idea construct that we telepathically agree exists as physical. we AGREE the sun is there, we do not know in the absolute that it is REALLY there.
if you want to say that these agreements are objectively true for the purpose of conversation, fine. TRUTH, however can not be defined because it is 'experienced' not defined. We each learn our own individual truth through experience (relative/subjective).
love&peace,
olde drunk
ahhh, I like where the conversation is going now. Yes, I agree with what you are saying, but there still is another layer or twist that you are not defining, is that we are still referring to the same 'energy' of what the sun is. It is still one point of refrence.
For example, you know, a very popular almost cliche used in hip philosophical discussions such as we all create are own reality. Well, who is to say one way or another, but if so, then there still is the reality we all create in synergy, such as the sun in the sky. All of us are receiving the same signal, energy, or what have you. even if our collective interpretation is artistic (false), we are still referring to the same thing. One cannot 'free will' away this signal, nor can they debate it away, nor can they rationalise it's non existence
There is not one human being who denies the existence of the 'sun', whether they look at it as God, Gas, Star, or illusion. It is still a functioning 'illusion' for all, and the absolute reality outside of that of our contruct is 'mystery' for all as well. Mystery is the ultimate 'truth' we all are faced with. It is true that there is mystery, and the sun is a mysterious object that we have come to understand objectivly over the centuries, but there is still much mystery about it that is left unanswered scientificaly.
Like you put it earlier, you said all truth is relative, and you ended your post with saying 'and I already got mine'.
where OS 012, or any idea or dialectic or system that is like OS 012 comes into play, is finding where there is 'our' truth as opposed to or in union with 'my' or 'your' truth.
so, our objective environment outside of us that we all participate in together, where the 'sun', whatever it turns out to be, resides. this is 'our' truth, and the quality of truth here is quite distinct from our 'inner' enviroment, which is our feelings, opinions, ideologies and the like.
so, there is only ONE environment outside of us, easy to see, this is the ONE simple objective truth. This we can say is true for certain. This is represented by the number 1 for obvious sake in OS 012. Or, like in a Math set, one is the only 'true' number.
we are always in agreement, or, to use Hegel's model, we already have an inherent synthesis of idea that we all agree to, no matter how heated our debates become. We are universally more in agreement than not. We all agree that this environment outside of us is the one where we all participate in together. anything outside of this is 'relative' and subjective, and when you can see this at play, you can see the natural synergy that exists between objective and subjective, unique quantum point of view with universal point of view. This is only an observation, outside of the world of opinion, metaphysics, or subjectivity. Yet we can only see 'it' from our unique and subjective point of view. built in paradox that the mind struggles with because it believes in a false dichotomy of true VS false. Once the mind can see that there exists another category for information that is equal to true and false, which is mystery, then the mind can expand and integrate deeper layers of information. This is only a natural process and not some technique taught in yoga schools, logic classes, or scientology ;-)
To us, our unique point of view always dominates all other points of view. But that is only to us as individuals, not for all collectivly. Therefore, all subjectivity, art, feelings are FALSE in objective environment (true in subjective enviroment, always a perfect mirrored 'reverse')
hehe, but don't trust me, I am a internet cult leader who wants to sleep with all of your women and siphon your cash! Best yet to see it for yourself for certainty and not trust my take on the matter...
Moonrat
PS, by the way, your other post title "macho nico VS 'moonie' hehe, that was funny!