Definition of Topology - What Does {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} Mean?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of topology, specifically focusing on the notation {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} and its implications in the context of topological spaces. Participants explore the requirements for a collection of subsets to form a topology, the meaning of the index set I, and the nature of unions of open sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify that a topological space ##(X,\tau)## consists of a set ##X## and a collection of subsets ##\tau##, with ##U_\alpha \subseteq X\, , \,\alpha \in I## representing any number of subsets.
  • It is noted that the empty set ##\emptyset## and the entire set ##X## must be elements of ##\tau##, along with the requirements for finite intersections and arbitrary unions of sets in ##\tau##.
  • One participant questions the notation {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} and seeks clarification on the meaning of I, expressing confusion over the lack of definition in the source material.
  • Another participant provides an example using the real numbers, suggesting that the union of open intervals can be indexed by an uncountable set, which illustrates the distinction between arbitrary and countably infinite unions.
  • There is a discussion about the topology on ##\mathbb{R}##, where some participants mention that defining only ##\emptyset## and ##\mathbb{R}## as open sets results in the coarsest topology, while the usual topology involves open intervals.
  • Some participants express that the usual topology on ##\mathbb{R}## is derived from the Euclidean norm, which provides a framework for defining open and closed sets based on distance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic requirements for a topology and the implications of the notation, but there are differing views on the examples and interpretations of specific topologies, particularly regarding the nature of open sets in ##\mathbb{R}##.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the need for clarity in definitions and notation, particularly regarding the indexing of sets and the nature of unions in topology. There is an acknowledgment of the potential for multiple topologies on the same set, which may lead to varying interpretations.

Silviu
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Hello! I just started reading an introductory book about topology and I got a bit confused from the definition. One of the condition for a topological space is that if ##\tau## is a collection of subsets of X, we have {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} implies ##\cup_{\alpha \in I} U_\alpha \in \tau ##. I assume this means that for any 2 sets in ##\tau## their union is also in ##\tau##. But I really don't understand the notation. What does {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} mean? And how is it related to ##\tau##? And what is I? There is nothing before this, to define "I" and I found this definition in different books, so I assume i am missing something here. Thank you!
 
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A topological space ##(X,\tau)## is a set ##X## together with a set ##\tau## of subsets ##U_\alpha \subseteq X\, , \,\alpha \in I##. This means any number of subsets. Next there are some requirements for this set of sets ##\tau = \{U_\alpha \subseteq X\, | \,\alpha \in I\}##.
The empty set ##\emptyset## as well as the entire set ##X## have to be elements of ##\tau##.
Any finite intersection of ##U_\alpha \in \tau## must also be an element of ##\tau##.
Any arbitrary union of ##U_\alpha \in \tau## must also be an element of ##\tau##.
If these requirements hold, then ##\tau## is called a topology on ##X##, which means the elements ##U_\alpha## of ##\tau## are the subsets of ##X## we call open.

In short: A topology on ##X## is the definition ##\tau## of sets, which we call open sets.
As long as the conditions above hold, we're free to choose any subsets of ##X## as open. That's why spaces can carry more than one topology.
 
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fresh_42 said:
A topological space ##(X,\tau)## is a set ##X## together with a set ##\tau## of subsets ##U_\alpha \subseteq X\, , \,\alpha \in I##. This means any number of subsets. Next there are some requirements for this set of sets ##\tau = \{U_\alpha \subseteq X\, | \,\alpha \in I\}##.
The empty set ##\emptyset## as well as the entire set ##X## have to be elements of ##\tau##.
Any finite intersection of ##U_\alpha \in \tau## must also be an element of ##\tau##.
Any arbitrary union of ##U_\alpha \in \tau## must also be an element of ##\tau##.
If these requirements hold, then ##\tau## is called a topology on ##X##, which means the elements ##U_\alpha## of ##\tau## are the subsets of ##X## we call open.

In short: A topology on ##X## is the definition ##\tau## of sets, which we call open sets.
As long as the conditions above hold, we're free to choose any subsets of ##X## as open. That's why spaces can carry more than one topology.
Thank you for your reply. It makes more sense now. So, just to make sure I understand, for example in R, we can define ##\emptyset## and R as the open sets in R and in this topology, by definition there are only 2 open sets? And the fact that we usually consider any interval (a,b) to be an open set in R is just a particular choice of topology on R?
 
Silviu said:
Thank you for your reply. It makes more sense now. So, just to make sure I understand, for example in R, we can define ##\emptyset## and R as the open sets in R and in this topology, by definition there are only 2 open sets? And the fact that we usually consider any interval (a,b) to be an open set in R is just a particular choice of topology on R?
Yes.
You probably see, that ##\{\emptyset,\mathbb{R}\}## isn't very interesting as a topology. It's the weakest or coarsest topology you can choose. The strongest or finest topology would be to declare for every single point ##p## the set ##\{p\}## as open set, which makes all subsets open (and simultaneously closed).

The "usual" topology defined by open intervals, is the topology, that comes from the Euclidean norm of ##\mathbb{R}## which gives us a tool to measure distances and ##"<"## conditions define something open, ##"\geq"## conditions something closed.
 
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Silviu said:
One of the condition for a topological space is that if ##\tau## is a collection of subsets of X, we have {##U_\alpha | \alpha \in I##} implies ##\cup_{\alpha \in I} U_\alpha \in \tau ##.
For example, suppose we are in the "usual" topology on the real line where open intervals are examples of open sets. let ##I## denote the set of real numbers that are not rational numbers of the form ##\frac{k}{2^n}## where ##k## and ##n## are positive integers. For each ##r \in I## define ##U_r## to be the open interval ##( r - e^{-|r|}, r + e^{-|r|} )##. The union ##S## of all the sets ##U_r## cannot be represented as an infinite series of unions of the form ##U_{r_1} \cup U_{r_2} \cup U_{r_3} \cup ...## because such a representation assumes the indices are the countable infinity of integers, which isn't sufficient to index the uncountable number of sets we are dealing with. So the notation ##S = \cup_{\alpha \in I} U_{\alpha}## is used to indicate the uncountable union.

This is illustrates the distinction between an "arbitrary" union and a "countably infinite union".
 
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