Density of states for fermions and bosons

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the density of states for fermions and bosons in the context of an ideal gas, specifically addressing how to account for spin in these calculations. Participants explore the implications of the Pauli exclusion principle and the treatment of spin states for different types of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that when calculating the density of states for an ideal gas, spin is initially ignored, and then a factor of 2 is introduced for fermions to account for two spin directions.
  • Another participant explains that the Pauli exclusion principle affects fermions, requiring an antisymmetric wavefunction, while bosons have a symmetric wavefunction and do not adhere to this principle.
  • A different viewpoint challenges the initial explanation by asserting that for spin 1 particles, each energy level corresponds to three different states, implying that a factor of 3 should be considered for bosons.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding and provides a general formula for the number of non-interacting identical particles with a given energy, referencing the Bose or Fermi distribution function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the treatment of spin states for bosons, with some arguing for a factor of 3 based on the spin of the particles, while others maintain that the Pauli exclusion principle does not apply to bosons in the same way it does for fermions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of accounting for spin in density of states calculations and the differing implications of quantum statistics for fermions and bosons. There is an unresolved debate about the appropriate factors to use in these calculations.

hokhani
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To take into account the density of states for an ideal gas, we first calculate it ignoring the spin. Then to take into account the spin for a system of electrons we put the number 2 for two spin directions. Why don't we do such this for a boson gas? For example if we have a gas of spin 1 particles, why don't we put the number 3 to consider three spin directions?
 
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The answer is Pauli exclusion principle. Spin 1 particles(bosons) do not care about it, i.e., when you interchange two bosons their wavefunction stays the same(symmertic). Fermions, on the other hand, respect the principle, i.e., have antisymmetric wavefunction, so you need that factor of two to account for all possible states.
 
samalkhaiat said:
The answer is Pauli exclusion principle. Spin 1 particles(bosons) do not care about it, i.e., when you interchange two bosons their wavefunction stays the same(symmertic). Fermions, on the other hand, respect the principle, i.e., have antisymmetric wavefunction, so you need that factor of two to account for all possible states.
Thanks, but I don't agree. We are indeed calculating the number of states accessible to a particle.Therefore for a particle with spin 1, each single level turns into three different states.
 
Yes, I completely misunderstood your question! In general, if you have g states with the same energy E, then the number of non-interacting, identical particles with energy e is given by
[tex]n_{ i } = g_{ i } D (e_{ i } , T )[/tex]
where [itex]D[/itex] is Bose or Fermi distribution function.
 

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