Derivative operators in Galilean transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the transformation of derivatives and partial derivatives under Galilean transformations, particularly examining the implications of these transformations on the relationships between time and space coordinates. Participants explore the mathematical consistency of these transformations in the context of non-relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of a specific equation from a reference, noting a perceived contradiction in the transformation of time and space derivatives.
  • Another participant clarifies that the relationship between time and space coordinates is not universally applicable and emphasizes the distinction between partial and total derivatives.
  • A third participant presents the Galilean transformation equations and discusses the independence of time and space variables in the context of field equations.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding the algebraic manipulation leading to a specific time-space relationship, with a focus on understanding the conditions under which these relationships hold.
  • One participant corrects a previous statement regarding the notation used, indicating a misunderstanding in the variable representation.
  • Another participant points out an error in treating a transformed coordinate as constant during differentiation, emphasizing the correct variable to hold constant in partial differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical relationships and the interpretation of derivatives under Galilean transformations. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the correct application of these transformations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations related to the assumptions made about the independence of variables and the nature of the derivatives involved. The discussion highlights the complexity of applying Galilean transformations to coordinate systems and the potential for misunderstanding in algebraic manipulations.

TomServo
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I'm confused about how the derivative with respect to time transforms under a Galilean transformation.
I'm studying how derivatives and partial derivatives transform under a Galilean transformation.

On this page:

http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/wave_velocity.pdf

Equation (16) relies on ##\frac{\partial t'}{\partial x}=0## but ##\frac{\partial x'}{\partial t}=-v##

But this seems like a contradiction to me. If you swap primed/unprimed you get ##\frac{\partial t}{\partial x'}=0## but ##\frac{\partial x}{\partial t'}=v##, in which case you have ##x=vt+x_0## and ##t=t'=\frac{x-x_0}{v}##. Thus ##\frac{dt'}{dx}=\frac{\partial t'}{\partial x}=\frac{1}{v}##, in violation of Eq. (16).

So where have I gone wrong? Thanks.
 
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##t## is not given by ##(x-x_0)/v##, that can be true only for a very particular world-line and that is not what you are considering, you are considering the transformation of coordinates. ##\partial x/\partial t’ = v## is a partial differential, not a total differential.
 
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The Galilei transformation reads
$$t'=t, \quad \vec{x}'=\vec{x}-\vec{v} t.$$
You consider ##t## and ##\vec{x}## as independent variables when it comes to (non-relativistic) field equations. Thus you have
$$\frac{\partial t'}{\partial t}=1, \quad \vec{\nabla} t'=0, \quad \partial_t \vec{x}'=-\vec{v}, \quad \vec{\nabla} \otimes \vec{x}=\hat{1}.$$
 
Orodruin said:
##t## is not given by ##(x-x_0)/v##, that can be true only for a very particular world-line and that is not what you are considering, you are considering the transformation of coordinates. ##\partial x/\partial t’ = v## is a partial differential, not a total differential.
Could you further explain what you mean here? I know what worldlines are, but it seems to me (just algebraically) that the ##t=\frac{x-x’}{v}## relation holds in general. After all, I’m just solving the transformation equation for t. I know this is wrong, but I’m trying to understand why the algebra leads me astray (or seems to).
 
And where I wrote ##x_0## originally I meant ##x’##.
 
Then you are treating x’ as a constant when differentiating with respect to x. That is incorrect. What is being kept constant when you take the partial with respect to x is t, not x’.
 
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