Derivatives and Linear transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between derivatives and linear transformations, particularly in the context of differentiable functions from Rn to R. Participants explore whether a function is uniquely determined by its derivative and the definitions and terminology surrounding derivatives and differentials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if f '(a)=A for all a in G, then f could be expressed as f(x)=A(x) but question the validity of this assumption.
  • Others argue that a function is not uniquely determined by its derivative, citing examples like g(x) and g(x)+C having the same derivatives.
  • A later reply discusses the definition of the derivative as the linear transformation that best approximates a function in a neighborhood of a point, introducing the concept of the differential.
  • There is a contention regarding the terminology, with some participants asserting that the linear transformation is always referred to as the derivative, while others suggest it is called the differential.
  • Participants clarify that the differential is the best linear map approximating the local change of the function, while the derivative represents the rate of change.
  • Some participants note that the terminology has evolved, with the Frechet derivative now often referred to as the differential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the uniqueness of functions determined by their derivatives and the appropriate terminology for derivatives and differentials. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved definitions and interpretations regarding the terms "derivative" and "differential," as well as the implications of linear transformations in the context of differentiable functions.

raghad
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Let G be a non-empty open connected set in Rn, f be a differentiable function from G into R, and A be a linear transformation from Rn to R. If f '(a)=A for all a in G, find f and prove your answer.

I thought of f as being the same as the linear transformation, i.e. f(x)=A(x). Is this true?
 
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raghad said:
I thought of f as being the same as the linear transformation, i.e. f(x)=A(x). Is this true?
No, but observe: [itex]f'(x) = (\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_{1}}, \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_{2}}, \dotso , \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_{n}})[/itex] and since A is linear, [itex]A=(a_{1}, a_{2}, \dotso , a_{n})[/itex]. Therefore [itex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_{1}}=a_{1}[/itex] etc. SInce all ak are constants, ...
 
is a function uniquely determined by its derivative?
 
mathwonk said:
is a function uniquely determined by its derivative?
Of course not - g(x) and g(x)+C have the same derivatives. I am a mathematician - I leave the details as an exercise for the student.
 
In general, with f a function from, say, Rn to Rm, we can define the derivative of f, at point p in Rn as "the linear transformation, from Rn to Rm that best approximates f in some neighborhood of p".

To make that "best approximates f" more precise, note that we can write any function, f, as [tex]f(x)= A(x- p)+ D(x)[/tex] where A is a linear transformation and D(x) has the property that the limit, as x approaches p, of D(x)/||x- p|| is 0. Then A is the "derivative of f at p".
 
HallsofIvy said:
In general, with f a function from, say, Rn to Rm, we can define the derivative of f, at point p in Rn as "the linear transformation, from Rn to Rm that best approximates f in some neighborhood of p".

To make that "best approximates f" more precise, note that we can write any function, f, as [tex]f(x)= A(x- p)+ D(x)[/tex] where A is a linear transformation and D(x) has the property that the limit, as x approaches p, of D(x)/||x- p|| is 0. Then A is the "derivative of f at p".
That's where it gets confusing: some call it the differential.
 
WWGD said:
That's where it gets confusing: some call it the differential.
Really? I've never heard someone call it the differential. As far as I know, the linear transformation that best approximates a function at a given point is always called the derivative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fréchet_derivative)

To answer the OP, it is almost true, you're just missing the constant. The answer is [itex]f(x) = Ax + c[/itex]. The linear transformation that best approximates this [itex]f[/itex] is clearly [itex]A[/itex], in other words [itex]f'(a) = A[/itex] for every element in [itex]G[/itex]. And since [itex]G[/itex] is connected, any other function with derivative equal to [itex]A[/itex] in [itex]G[/itex], must differ only by a constant.
 
Xiuh said:
Really? I've never heard someone call it the differential. As far as I know, the linear transformation that best approximates a function at a given point is always called the derivative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fréchet_derivative)

To answer the OP, it is almost true, you're just missing the constant. The answer is [itex]f(x) = Ax + c[/itex]. The linear transformation that best approximates this [itex]f[/itex] is clearly [itex]A[/itex], in other words [itex]f'(a) = A[/itex] for every element in [itex]G[/itex]. And since [itex]G[/itex] is connected, any other function with derivative equal to [itex]A[/itex] in [itex]G[/itex], must differ only by a constant.
I think that A as a function is usually called, in my experience, the differential. Once you plug in numbers , it is called the derivative in this layout, so that, e.g., for ##f(x)=x^2##, ##2x## is the differential, but the derivative at a fixed ##x_0## is ##2x_0##.
 
No. If f(x)= x2, the derivative is [itex]df/dx= 2x[/itex]. The "differential" is [itex]df= 2xdx[/itex].
And, as you say, the "derivative at fixed x0" is 2x0.
 
  • #10
It would help if you quoted actual definitions: the differential is the best linear map approximating the local change of the function near the point. The derivative is the rate of change (modulo higher dimensions).
 
  • #11
WWGD said:
I think that A as a function is usually called, in my experience, the differential. Once you plug in numbers , it is called the derivative in this layout, so that, e.g., for ##f(x)=x^2##, ##2x## is the differential, but the derivative at a fixed ##x_0## is ##2x_0##.

HallsofIvy said:
No. If f(x)= x2, the derivative is [itex]df/dx= 2x[/itex]. The "differential" is [itex]df= 2xdx[/itex].
And, as you say, the "derivative at fixed x0" is 2x0.
I agree with Halls here, and would add only "differential of f."

If f is a function of two variables, say z = f(x, y), then the differential of f (also called the total differential of f) is ##df = \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}dx + \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}dy##.
 
  • #12
Mark44 said:
I agree with Halls here, and would add only "differential of f."

If f is a function of two variables, say z = f(x, y), then the differential of f (also called the total differential of f) is ##df = \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}dx + \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}dy##.

Yes, I corrected myself in my post after that one.
 
  • #13
what used to be called the Frechet derivative some 50 years ago, e.g. in Dieudonne's Foundations of modern analysis, is now usually called the differential.
 

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