Describing the radius with density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical description of how density changes as the radius of an object decreases, particularly focusing on the relationship between mass, volume, and density. Participants explore this concept through mathematical notation and examples, considering both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that density is inversely proportional to volume, suggesting the relationship d ∝ v-1.
  • One participant provides a specific example using a steel ball bearing, questioning how density changes when the radius is halved.
  • Another participant explains the mathematical relationship using the formula for density D = m/V and the volume of a sphere, illustrating how density increases as radius decreases.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of expressing the problem in terms of mathematical limits, suggesting the limit notation \lim_{r \to 0} d = \infty to describe density approaching infinity as radius approaches zero.
  • There is a challenge regarding the consistency of units used in the example, with a participant pointing out a potential discrepancy in mass and density calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct mathematical notation and the implications of the example provided. There is no consensus on the specific values used in the example, and some participants question the assumptions made about mass and density.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the mixing of measurement systems (metric and American), which may lead to confusion in calculations. Additionally, there are unresolved questions about the accuracy of the specified density and mass in the example.

MathJakob
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How can I describe mathematically that if you take some mass m with some density d as the radius tends to 0 the density tends to \infty

I'm not exactly sure what it is I'm trying to describe I'm just looking for something that describes when the radius of an object decreases, the density increases.

How can I write this using mathematical notation?
 
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You could say d \propto r^{-1}, or more accurately d \propto v^{-1}.
 
Millennial said:
or more accurately d \propto v^{-1}.

Ok so how would I read that?
 
Density is inversely proportional to volume, given constant mass.
 
OK I think I understand. so let's just use some random figures. If I had a steel ball bearing which had a radius of 8cm, a mass of 1lb, volume of 2144.66 and a density of 2.76 g/cm3. If I decreased the radius by half, what factor does the density increase by?
 
This will fully explain.

Remember,
D=\frac{m}{V}
and, for a sphere,
V=\frac{4}{3}\pir2
so if
V1=\frac{4}{3}\pir2
with full radius r, then
V2=\frac{4}{3}\pi(\frac{r}{2})2
with half the radius or
V2=\frac{1}{4}(\frac{4}{3}\pir2)
which yields the proportion
V2=\frac{1}{4}V1

So, since
D1=\frac{m}{V_{1}}
and
D2=\frac{m}{V_{2}}
then
D2=\frac{4(m)}{V_{1}}
and
D2=4D1

Notice how they're inversely proportional by a square of the radius? (I mostly wrote this up to practice Latex, but I hope this helped)
 
Hey MathJakob.

Take what the above posters have said and pose your problem in terms of mathematical limits.
 
chiro said:
Hey MathJakob.

Take what the above posters have said and pose your problem in terms of mathematical limits.

Well mathematically all I can think of is \lim_{r \to 0} d \to \infty As the limit of radius goes to 0, the limit of density goes to infinity
 
MathJakob said:
Well mathematically all I can think of is \lim_{r \to 0} d \to \infty As the limit of radius goes to 0, the limit of density goes to infinity

Syntax wise, that's not quite right.

The limit of density as radius tends to 0 is infinity (a lot of people say "grows without bound.")

But, by syntax wise, I mean that you spoke of two limits, but this is one limit. Furthermore, you would write:

\lim_{r \to 0} d = \infty

(An equals sign as opposed to a second arrow)

But this is just my personal experience, it may be the way that you wrote it is acceptable, it just looks and sounds strange to me.
 
  • #10
MathJakob said:
OK I think I understand. so let's just use some random figures. If I had a steel ball bearing which had a radius of 8cm, a mass of 1lb, volume of 2144.66 and a density of 2.76 g/cm3. If I decreased the radius by half, what factor does the density increase by?

This just does not work. You have SPECIFIED a specific and fixed density. If you compute the the mass of your sphere given the above data either the density is incorrect or the mass is you cannot have it both ways. Given your density and radius the mass must be near 6kg or 13lbs.

Why are you mixing systems? Specify your quantities in either metric or American, don't mix.

I think what you want to do is hold mass constant then shrink the radius. Now as the radius tends to zero the density will grow without bound.
 

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