Determine the standard deviation of these results

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the standard deviation of tensile strength results from a material testing experiment involving 10 samples. Participants are analyzing the calculations related to the sample standard deviation and discussing the mean value in different units.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to calculate the sample standard deviation using the provided formula and discussing the mean value. Some question the terminology used, specifically the phrase "mean standard deviation," and suggest it may have caused confusion. Others are verifying calculations and discussing the implications of using N versus N-1 in the variance formula.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing dialogue regarding the calculations and terminology. Some participants have offered corrections and clarifications, while others are exploring the implications of different interpretations of the problem. The conversation reflects a mix of verification and exploration of concepts related to standard deviation and mean.

Contextual Notes

Participants are addressing potential errors in calculations and the proper application of statistical formulas. There is mention of homework constraints and the need for clarity in the problem statement.

Tiberious
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I've managed to work out the below for the sample standard deviation. Any error's that I should be aware of?

Homework Statement



The ultimate tensile strength of a material was tested using 10 samples. The results of the tests were as follows.

711 N 〖mm〗^(-2),732 N 〖mm〗^(-2),759 N 〖mm〗^(-2),670 N 〖mm〗^(-2),701 N 〖mm〗^(-2),
765 N 〖mm〗^(-2),743 N 〖mm〗^(-2),755 N 〖mm〗^(-2),715 N 〖mm〗^(-2),713 N 〖mm〗^(-2).

[/B]
(a) Determine the mean standard deviation of these results.
(a) Express the values found in (a) in GPa.

Homework Equations



s= √(1/(N-1) ∑_(i=1)^N▒(x_i-x ̅ )^2 )

The Attempt at a Solution



(a) As we are referring to a 'sample' we apply the below formula for Standard Deviation:

s= √(1/(N-1) ∑_(i=1)^N▒(x_i-x ̅ )^2 )

Calculating the mean value x ̅

(711 + 732 +759+670+701 +765 +743+755 +715 +713)/10

x ̅= 726.4 〖N mm〗^(-2)
Determining the (x_i-x ̅)^2

(711-726.4 )^2= 237.16
(732-726.4 )^2= 31.36
(759-726.4 )^2= 1062.76
(670-726.4 )^2= 3180.95
(701-726.4 )^2= 625.16
(765-726.4 )^2= 1489.96
(743-726.4 )^2= 275.56
(755-726.4 )^2= 817.96
(715-726.4 )^2= 129.96
(713-726.4 )^2= 179.56

Determining the sum of the above

∑▒237.16+31.36 +1062.76 +3180.95 +625.16 +1489.96 +275.56 +817.96 +129.96 +179.56

= 8,030.29 〖N mm〗^(-2)

Divide by N-1

(1/5)∙8030.29= 1606.06 N 〖mm〗^(-2)Determining the sample standard deviation σ

σ= √((1606.06)=40.08 N 〖mm〗^(-2)=4.008 MPa

(b)4.008 MPa=0.004008 GPa

Or in standard form, 4.008∙10^(-3) GPa.
 
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##\sigma=40 ## N/mm^2=40 MPa=.040 GPa if my arithmetic is correct. ## \\ ## And you don't need to keep all the extra sig figs on the standard deviation. ## \\ ## And I think they want the mean and standard deviation. You didn't give the value of the mean in GPa.
 
Tiberious said:
Determine the mean standard deviation of these results.
There's a mean and there's a standard deviation. I'm not aware of a term called mean standard deviation, but there is a standard error, where you look at the variation of a collection of samples.
 
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There is a standard deviation, ##\sigma_{\bar x}##, of the sample mean ##\bar x##. It is closely related to the confidence interval of the population mean ##\mu##. $$\sigma_{\bar x} = \sigma/\sqrt M \approx s/\sqrt M$$ where ##s## is the sample standard deviation and ##M## is the sample size.
 
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FactChecker said:
There is a standard deviation, ##\sigma_{\bar x}##, of the sample mean ##\bar x##. It is closely related to the confidence interval of the population mean ##\mu##. $$\sigma_{\bar x} = \sigma/\sqrt M \approx s/\sqrt M$$ where ##s## is the sample standard deviation and ##M## is the sample size.
Let the mean be ## Y ##, so that ## Y=\bar{X}=\frac{X_1+X_2+...+X_M}{M} ##. ## \\ ## If the random measurements are uncorrelated, ## \sigma_Y^2=\frac{\sigma_{X_1}^2+\sigma_{X_2}^2+...+\sigma_{X_M}^2}{M^2}=\frac{M \, \sigma_X^2}{M^2}=\frac{\sigma_X^2}{M} ##. ## \\ ## That is what I think @FactChecker is referring to, but I don't think it is what the problem is asking for. ## \\ ## I believe the OP @Tiberious left off the word "and" between "mean" and "standard deviation", and it has created some confusion.
 
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Charles Link said:
Let the mean be ## Y ##, so that ## Y=\bar{X}=\frac{X_1+X_2+...+X_M}{M} ##. ## \\ ## If the random measurements are uncorrelated, ## \sigma_Y^2=\frac{\sigma_{X_1}^2+\sigma_{X_2}^2+...+\sigma_{X_M}^2}{M^2}=\frac{M \, \sigma_X^2}{M^2}=\frac{\sigma_X^2}{M} ##. ## \\ ## That is what I think @FactChecker is referring to, but I don't think it is what the problem is asking for. ## \\ ## I believe the OP @Tiberious left off the word "and" between "mean" and "standard deviation", and it has created some confusion.
They are all very standard things to ask for. But I agree that the sample mean and sample standard deviation are the first two things to calculate.
 
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Yes - it does seem my OP was missing the word 'and' apologies for the confusion. Just to confirm;

The answer for standard deviation is 0.040 Gpa ?

So, would the mean be 0.016Gpa ?
 
In your original post, why are you dividing by 5 instead of 9 for the sample variance?

PS. small error: (701-726.4 )^2=645.16, not 625.16.
 
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So, amending (701-726.4 )^2 from 625.16 to 645.16 and amending the following would lead to 805.02N mm^-2

Amendments being: -

(701-726.4 )^2 = 645.16

(1/10)∙8050.29= 805.02 N mm^-2

This leads to: -

σ= √((805.02)=28.37 N mm^(-2)= 0.02837 Mpa

Converting to Gpa yields: -

2.837*10^-5 Gpa

Looking any better ?
 
  • #10
Tiberious said:
(1/10)∙8050.29= 805.02 N mm^-2
Why are you dividing by 10 instead of N-1=10-1=9?

If you know the true mean, ##\mu##, you should use that in the formula for the sample standard deviation and divide by N. But if you estimate the mean with ##\bar x ##, your results of ##\sum_{i=1}^{i=N} (x_i-\bar x)^2## will be smaller and you should divide by ##N-1##.
 
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  • #11
Ah! thanks, brief moment of confusion. I assume this would amend the overall error ?
 

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