Determine whether or not something is a subspace

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of subspaces in vector spaces, specifically examining whether a given set of vectors defined by the condition {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} qualifies as a subspace of R3. Participants explore definitions, conditions for subspaces, and provide examples to illustrate their reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the definition of a subspace and proposes a method for checking if a specific set is a subspace, applying the conditions of closure under addition and scalar multiplication.
  • Another participant challenges the initial approach, arguing that the conditions were not checked correctly for arbitrary vectors and provides a counterexample using specific vectors from the proposed set.
  • A later reply elaborates on the reasoning, indicating that the sum of two vectors from the set does not satisfy the subspace condition, thus concluding that the set is not a subspace.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants disagree on whether the set {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subspace of R3. Some argue it is not a subspace based on the failure to meet the closure conditions, while others initially believed it might be, leading to an unresolved debate over the correctness of the initial reasoning.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of clarity regarding the standard presentation of vectors and the assumptions made about the vectors involved in the conditions for subspaces. The discussion also highlights the importance of checking conditions for arbitrary vectors rather than specific examples.

kesun
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My understanding of the subspace still isn't solid enough, so I want to know what I know so far is at least correct.

By definition, a set of vectors S of Rn is called a subspace of Rn iff for all vectors (I will call them x):
1) (x+y) \in S and
2) kx \in S.

Also, the solution set of a homogeneous system is always a subspace.

When I encounter problems such as determine whether or not {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subspace of its corresponding Rn, I would approach this problem as such:

Since the set has only three vectors, then it's in R3, first of all; then I check for 1): Suppose a set of vectors Y {(y1,y2,y3)|y1y2=0}, then (S+Y)=x1x2+y1y2=0+0=0; for 2): kS=(kx1)(kx2)=(k0)(k0)=0. Therefore it is a subspace of R3.

Is my way of solving this problem correct?
 
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You are right in that you must check your the two conditions. But you must do it for arbitrary vectors, you didn't seem to do this correctly. Consider

(1,0,0), (0,1,0) \in \{(x_{1},x_{2},x_{3})|x_{1}x_{2}=0\}.

If you add them you obtain (1,1,0) which clearly does not have x_{1}x_{2} = 0. Also the way you present your vectors doesn't seem standard.
 
kesun said:
My understanding of the subspace still isn't solid enough, so I want to know what I know so far is at least correct.

By definition, a set of vectors S of Rn is called a subspace of Rn iff for all vectors (I will call them x):
1) (x+y) \in S and
2) kx \in S.

Also, the solution set of a homogeneous system is always a subspace.

When I encounter problems such as determine whether or not {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subspace of its corresponding Rn, I would approach this problem as such:

Since the set has only three vectors, then it's in R3, first of all; then I check for 1): Suppose a set of vectors Y {(y1,y2,y3)|y1y2=0}, then (S+Y)=x1x2+y1y2=0+0=0; for 2): kS=(kx1)(kx2)=(k0)(k0)=0. Therefore it is a subspace of R3.

Is my way of solving this problem correct?
That was a nice attempt but your steps were wrong.
{(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subset of \mathbb{R}^3\which satisfies the property that x1x2 = 0. but since x1, x2 are in \mathbb{R}, then either x1=0 or x2=0 or both equal zero.<br /> To proof that it is a subspace, let y and s be vectors in {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} such that y = (y1,y2,y3) and s = (s1,s2,s3), then<br /> y+s = (y1+s1,y2+s2,y3+s3)<br /> check (y1+s1)(y2+s2) = y1y2+y1s2+s1y2+s1s2= y1s2+s1y2 (since y1y2=0 and s1s2=0<br /> clear in general; y1s2+s1y2 is not equal to zero. this implies that it does not satisfy the property x1x2 = 0. Hence the set {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is not a subspace of \mathbb{R}^3\. we don't need to proof the second property
 
kesun said:
My understanding of the subspace still isn't solid enough, so I want to know what I know so far is at least correct.

By definition, a set of vectors S of Rn is called a subspace of Rn iff for all vectors (I will call them x):
1) (x+y) \in S and
2) kx \in S.

Also, the solution set of a homogeneous system is always a subspace.

When I encounter problems such as determine whether or not {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subspace of its corresponding Rn, I would approach this problem as such:

Since the set has only three vectors, then it's in R3, first of all; then I check for 1): Suppose a set of vectors Y {(y1,y2,y3)|y1y2=0}, then (S+Y)=x1x2+y1y2=0+0=0; for 2): kS=(kx1)(kx2)=(k0)(k0)=0. Therefore it is a subspace of R3.

Is my way of solving this problem correct?
That was a nice attempt but your steps were wrong.
{(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is a subset of R3 which satisfies the property that x1x2 = 0. but since x1, x2 are in R3 then either x1=0 or x2=0 or both equal zero.
To proof that it is a subspace, let y and s be vectors in {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} such that y = (y1,y2,y3) and s = (s1,s2,s3), then
y+s = (y1+s1,y2+s2,y3+s3)
check (y1+s1)(y2+s2) = y1y2+y1s2+s1y2+s1s2= y1s2+s1y2 (since y1y2=0 and s1s2=0
clear in general; y1s2+s1y2 is not equal to zero. this implies that it does not satisfy the property x1x2 = 0. Hence the set {(x1,x2,x3)|x1x2=0} is not a subspace of R3. we don't need to proof the second property
 

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