Differential operators - the rules

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rules and interpretations of differential operators, particularly the second derivative and its relationship to the first derivative. Participants explore the nuances of mathematical notation and its application in physics, with a focus on how these concepts are represented in different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the relationship between the second derivative, denoted as d²y/dx², and the first derivative dy/dx, noting that rooting the second derivative does not yield the first derivative.
  • Another participant clarifies that d²y/dx² represents the second derivative as (d/dx)(d/dx)y, but it does not equate to [(d/dx)y]².
  • A third participant suggests that the notation in the quantum mechanics notes may imply a different operational definition of "square root," where f²(x) could mean f(f(x)) rather than the conventional multiplication.
  • A later reply highlights the ongoing tension between mathematical and physics nomenclature, suggesting that terminology may differ significantly between the two fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of differential notation and its implications in physics versus mathematics. There is no consensus on the definitions or operational meanings, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects limitations in the clarity of notation and definitions used in different disciplines, which may lead to misunderstandings. The specific operational definitions of terms like "square root" in the context of differential operators are not universally agreed upon.

randybryan
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I always get slightly confused with the rules of differentials.

now [tex]\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}[/tex] is the scond derivative of the function y(x

but rooting this does NOT give the first derivative dy/dx

However, with the operator [tex]\frac{d^{2}}{dx^{2}}[/tex], it seems that you can root this and it DOES give the first derivative.

Can someone please explain this to me? I may be wrong, but this seems to be the case in my quantum mechanic notes
 
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Hi randybryan! :wink:

Yes, d2y/dx2 = (d/dx)(d/dx)y, but ≠ [(d/dx)y]2.

It's for the same reason that sin(sin(y)) ≠ [sin(y)]2 :smile:
 
randybryan said:
I always get slightly confused with the rules of differentials.

now [tex]\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}[/tex] is the scond derivative of the function y(x

but rooting this does NOT give the first derivative dy/dx

However, with the operator [tex]\frac{d^{2}}{dx^{2}}[/tex], it seems that you can root this and it DOES give the first derivative.

Can someone please explain this to me? I may be wrong, but this seems to be the case in my quantum mechanic notes
I suspect that your "quantum mechanic notes" (don't hold mathematicians responsible for what a physicist says!:wink:) are using a special notation in which "square root" has some kind of operational definition. That is, "[itex]f^2(x)[/itex]" does not mean f(x) times itself but f(f(x)) and [itex]\sqrt{f}[/itex] is the inverse of that.
 
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Ahh the ongoing feud that is Maths nomenclature vs Physics nomenclature.
 

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