Differents ways of ordering bars and stars

  • Thread starter Thread starter LCSphysicist
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Stars
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around combinatorial problems involving the arrangement of bars and stars, a common topic in combinatorics. Participants explore the application of combinations in counting arrangements and the implications of distinguishability among the objects involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss different methods of counting arrangements, including fixing positions and considering distinguishability. Questions arise about the validity of using combinations and the interpretation of arrangements when objects are indistinguishable.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants offering various perspectives on the problem. Some suggest alternative counting methods, while others seek clarification on the reasoning behind using combinations. There is an exploration of how distinguishability affects the counting of arrangements.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating assumptions about the distinguishability of bars and stars, as well as the rules for applying combinations in this context. There is an acknowledgment of different interpretations of the problem setup.

LCSphysicist
Messages
644
Reaction score
163
Homework Statement
How many different ways can we plop down the stars and bars?
Relevant Equations
...
1599420659862.png

Actually, the answer is
1599420682496.png

But i am not sure why we can apply combination here. I am a little confused.
I could get the answer fixing the bar 1 in each place, with this fixed, we could change the position of the other bar. That would be:
First we have 7 different position
After this, 6 different position
5
.
.
.
0

Sn = 8*(7+0)/2 = 28

But i don't know why this is a combination.
Technically, is not
***|*|** = ||****** in the point of view of combination (The order does not matter)?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You can look at it different ways. You counted possibilities, and the other way is what the book does: Each of the eight places has two possibilities. That is drawing eight times either a ball with a star or with a bar out of the bowl and putting back the drawn ball. So we have eight places and two balls, which is 8 choose 2.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LCSphysicist
If I affix numbers 1-6 to the stars and 1-2 to the bars, so they are all distinguishable, how many distinct orderings are there?

If I removed the numbers from the bars, for any given layout how many became indistinguishable from it? So how many distinguishable arrangements are there?

If I then removed the numbers from the stars (so neither stars nor bars are distinguishable), for any given layout how many became indistinguishable from it?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LCSphysicist
The question is equivalent to asking "how many distinct subsets of size 2 can I form from the set ##\{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8\}##?"
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: LCSphysicist

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K