Do Kaluza-Klein theories accurately describe nature's forces and particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Kaluza-Klein theories and their potential to accurately describe the fundamental forces and particles of nature. Participants explore the implications of compactification in higher dimensions, the relationship between Kaluza-Klein modes and string theory, and the effects of these theories at various energy scales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Kaluza-Klein theories in 8 and 10 dimensions can yield gauge theories such as SU(3) and SU(3)xU(1)2, with implications for quantum chromodynamics (QCD).
  • There is a suggestion that Kaluza-Klein modes are relevant at the Planck scale, but their effects on low-energy physics are suppressed except in specific compactifications or brane-world scenarios.
  • One participant notes that while the compactification scale is typically near the Planck scale, the gauge fields from Kaluza-Klein arise from massless modes, which may not be directly affected by the compactification scale unless related to symmetry breaking.
  • Another viewpoint highlights that many Kaluza-Klein theories, aside from specific cases like Tn or K3, tend to lead to SU(n) theories and a corresponding QCD string theory.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the challenges faced by models attempting to accurately describe nature, such as those based on Kaluza-Klein theories, including issues with low cutoffs and stabilization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relevance and implications of Kaluza-Klein theories in string theory and their effects at different energy scales. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on the accuracy of these theories in describing nature's forces and particles.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific compactification scenarios, unresolved issues related to the cutoff in models, and the varying interpretations of the role of Kaluza-Klein modes in string theory.

arivero
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Kaluza Klein in 8 dimensions with the 4 dimensional compact space being the homogeneous space H=SU(3)/SU(2)xU(1), so that the resulting KK bosons are those of SU(3). Similarly, KK in 10 dimensions with H x T^2 as compactified space will produce a SU(3)xU(1)^2 gauge theory.

For energies smaller that the compactificacion scale, this theory is QCD. So it has (empirically, at least) confinement, and it has an implicit string theory, the one of the QCD flux tube. One could even tell of two open string theories: an oriented one, where pairs of particle and antiparticle lie in the extremes of the string, and an unoriented one, where the extremes can be of the same SU(3) irrep, say two quarks or two antiquarks. Are the extremes of these strings confined to live in the 3-brane of space-time?

I pondered how relevant QCD was to strings after a post http://www.nonequilibrium.net/108-how-stringy-is-qcd-string/

I wonder why the forces coming from KK are not considered in most models of superstring theory. Or are they considered but in a hidden way?
 
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arivero said:
I wonder why the forces coming from KK are not considered in most models of superstring theory. Or are they considered but in a hidden way?

KK modes in string theory are at the Planck scale! Their effects on ultra-ULTRA low-energy physics (a.k.a. electroweak scale) are hence suppressed except in rather exceptional compactifications, brane-world scenarios, etc. In such cases, there are additional forces (Brans-Dicke type forces, for example) and "fifth-force" experiments can be very constraining.
 
blechman said:
KK modes in string theory are at the Planck scale! Their effects on ultra-ULTRA low-energy physics (a.k.a. electroweak scale) are hence suppressed except in rather exceptional compactifications, brane-world scenarios, etc. In such cases, there are additional forces (Brans-Dicke type forces, for example) and "fifth-force" experiments can be very constraining.


The (most usual) compactification scale is near the Planck scale, yes. But the gauge fields from kaluza klein come via the massless modes, so the scale is not relevant to get the gauge structure; it could be relevant if the compactification scale were related to symmetry breaking.

On other hand, as you say, there are models "strings at TeV" wher the KK modes are near the electroweak scale.

The point I was intrigued here, in any case, is that it seems that almost any KK theory (besides T^n or K3) would produce a SU(n) theory and then a "QCD" string theory.
 
Ah, so you are referring not to the "KK modes" of the theory, but the higher dimensional polarizations (like g_{5\mu}) in the original KK idea.

This has been done in the context of brane-world scenarios. However, such models that try to accurately describe nature (UED, for example) have problems, such as a very low cutoff; stabilization issues; etc.
 

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