Math Do mathematicians struggle to get a job?

[l-1j-cho]

Straightforwardly, my parents want me to become an engineer since they can easily get a job. On the contrary, a professor is the only job that a mathematician can get. But I want to pursue my career in mathematics, especially the number theory, since life is once and I think one should do whatever he loves to do for his career. I am a high school student. How does mathematics career look like?

 

[Ryker]

On the contrary, a professor is the only job that a mathematician can get.

Is that what they think or what you think? In either case, it's wrong, but I'll let others elaborate on what kinds of jobs are available.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Is that what they think or what you think? In either case, it's wrong, but I'll let others elaborate on what kinds of jobs are available.

that's what they think. there are lots of jobs I can get, where cryptocraphy sounds the most interesting to me. btw, I am not really interested in statistics. I might consider analysis or applied mathematics, but the number theory is my favorite

 

[I like Serena]

that's what they think. there are lots of jobs I can get, where cryptocraphy sounds the most interesting to me. btw, I am not really interested in statistics. I might consider analysis or applied mathematics, but the number theory is my favorite

When I started my studies, I had trouble choosing too.
On the advice of the student advisor I started 3 studies at the same time: mathematics, physics and computer science.

In the end I became a software engineer, because there is little work for a mathematician or a physicist.
Recently, I have picked up on math and physics again.
I'm now tutoring people who have difficulty with those as an extra job, which I enjoy.
I've started this, because I missed doing stuff with math and physics.
That's also the reason I'm here on this forum.

So my advice: start 2+ studies in engineering and math (if you can).
Engineering will get you your job, but math is fun and a good supportive science.
Note that engineering will require you to do mathematics as well.

 

[l-1j-cho]

When I started my studies, I had trouble choosing too.
On the advice of the student advisor I started 3 studies at the same time: mathematics, physics and computer science.

In the end I became a software engineer, because there is little work for a mathematician or a physicist.
Recently, I have picked up on math and physics again.
I'm now tutoring people who have difficulty with those as an extra job, which I enjoy.
I've started this, because I missed doing stuff with math and physics.
That's also the reason I'm here on this forum.

So my advice: start 2+ studies in engineering and math (if you can).
Engineering will get you your job, but math is fun and a good supportive science.
Note that engineering will require you to do mathematics as well.

I am interested in cryptography. I am seriously considering to apply for mathematics and computer science double major. However, are cryptographers in demand? I am quite sure that ordinary people have not heard of such occupation at all.

 

[I like Serena]

I am interested in cryptography. I am seriously considering to apply for mathematics and computer science double major. However, are cryptographers in demand? I am quite sure that ordinary people have not heard of such occupation at all.

My best guesses for cryptography would be:

• Bank or insurance company - they will pay well too
• Internet provider or internet related company
• Government

However, I have to admit that I don't really know.

 

[elkement]

I am interested in cryptography. I am seriously considering to apply for mathematics and computer science double major. However, are cryptographers in demand? I am quite sure that ordinary people have not heard of such occupation at all.

I think this is a good choice - more and more applications are using cryptography and digital certificates for authentication. I am a physicist and mainly concerned with implementing public key infrastructures and doing security consulting with a focus on cryptography. During the last years I have seen an increasing demand for people with such skills.

Make sure that you acquire also some not-too-theoretical skills such as implementing cryptography in applications, e.g. learn how to use cryptographic algorithms in Java or .NET or some other popular language or how to implement systems managing networking security (e.g. plan and design authentication based on IPsec, 802.1x to secure wired or wireless networks).

You might be employed at the IT department of large corporations or agencies - as a developer that e.g. builds some custom authentication client, or as a security architect. You could also work for hardware or software vendors that develop for example smartcards, biometric devices etc. Or you would work for a company that specializes in security consulting and thus evaluate security solutions.
You might become or remain a technical specialist, e.g. a security researcher and 'reverse engineer' and test other products. Many security experts turn to more general aspects later in their career, such as compliance or security awareness - it is up to you. (I personally prefer the hacker-like aspects actually.)

I would try to get in touch with potential employer companies during studying, e.g. you might need some test hardware or software to work on a project - that might be a good chance to talk to the development teams at the vendor companies.

If you are interested in cryptography, I would read the blog of security guru Bruce Schneier: http://www.schneier.com
This should give you an overview about a variety of topics security experts and cryptographers work on.

So in summary cryptography is a promising field that gives you several career options.

 

[elkement]

My best guesses for cryptography would be:

• Bank or insurance company - they will pay well too
• Internet provider or internet related company
• Government

However, I have to admit that I don't really know.

All is true according to my experience - finance, service providers(*) and government / military. But actually all industry sectors are demanding cryptography experts - also manufacturing companies e.g. Production requires 'traceability' --> tracking of components that will be built into final products. More and more applications provide strong traceability by utilizing digital signatures.

(*) Many telecommunications companies acquired companies specialized on security and are offering so-called managed security services now.

In general a company or organisation needs to have a certain minimum size in order to hire their own developers / security experts. Smaller companies / agencies might rather 'outsource' to software / hardware vendors or external security consultants / developers.

 

[brocks]

life is once and I think one should do whatever he loves to do for his career.

That is the most important line in your post. If you are lucky enough to know what you want to do at such a young age, and are good enough at it to that you can make a living at it, then why worry about whether you might make more doing something else?

Obviously a minimum amount of money is necessary, but someone like you doesn't have to worry about minimums. Beyond the minimum, the most that money can do is buy things that help take your mind off the fact that you hate your job.

If you can find a way to get people to pay you to do what you enjoy, you are way, way ahead of the game. Do it.

 

[Geezer]

My partner is a mathematician. Despite great credentials, being a co-PI on a million dollar NSF focused research grant, a nice long publication list in high-impact journals and great letters of recommendations, he still hasn't received a single job offer for a tenure-track professorship (though he's had lots of interviews).

Our advice? Don't try the academic route. The jobs are practically impossible to get.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Jobs with mathematics degree

I would really appreciate if someone list prospective jobs that I can get with mathematics degree. (Other than the academic route, professor)

Number theory - Cryptographer (Cryptoanalyst)
Mathematical Logic - Lawyer
Analysis - Actuary, Financial analyst, Economist
?

 

[Null_]

Here is a fairly nice list:
http://www.toroidalsnark.net/mathcareers.html

 

[epenguin]

I think you would get a more useful answer if you stated why you are asking and what stage you are at.

I am sure that it is pointless to be asking yourself at a too early stage 'in what subspeciality are there most jobs' and then thinking 'I will go for that and just that'.

Many here will (like me) have the prejudice that it is better to do or include the math of something - engineering, chemistry, biology, economics, accountancy and finance, or even less usual things where math gets used like linguistics or just anything that may interest you (or even physics though you might want to steer away from that overcrowded field!?) but something - rather than just math, the math of nothing. This means taking some courses in those things, studying them in their own terms. I guess it will make you more eventually employable, and without it you may be handicapped in interacting professionally with those of another discipline. If that means a few less courses on the pure math of some specialised nothing what does it matter? You'll never get on top of the whole lot anyway. Once you have picked up good habits, a reasonable background and practice, you can always mug up a bit more math of any particular subspeciality of the math of nothing as and when you need it. Or even be free to devote your life to it after all. One more course will be a drop in the vast ocean of the math of nothing anyway.

Well, I said many will share that prejudice, others may not.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Threads merged.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

If you are located in the U.S.A., take a look at this link:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos043.htm

 

[DarrenM]

My partner is a mathematician. Despite great credentials, being a co-PI on a million dollar NSF focused research grant, a nice long publication list in high-impact journals and great letters of recommendations, he still hasn't received a single job offer for a tenure-track professorship (though he's had lots of interviews).

Our advice? Don't try the academic route. The jobs are practically impossible to get.

What about the non-academic route? Has he had difficulty finding (gainful) employment outside of academia? Or has he not tried that route?

 

[chiro]

Straightforwardly, my parents want me to become an engineer since they can easily get a job. On the contrary, a professor is the only job that a mathematician can get. But I want to pursue my career in mathematics, especially the number theory, since life is once and I think one should do whatever he loves to do for his career. I am a high school student. How does mathematics career look like?

I think a safe general rule of thumb is the more applied (and the larger domain of application it is) the better your job prospects. Things that fit this bill include engineering and statistics.

 

[l-1j-cho]

How big is the job market for cryptographers? Cryptographers are paid well($80000 according to several websites) but how big is the job market? I know that most engineers do not worry about getting jobs since the job market is huge but, not sure for cryptographers. Are they classified as software engineers?