News Do Politicians' Lies Depend More on Their Party or the Lie Itself?

[Zero]

Hmmm...but, somehow, Bush's lying about EVERYTHING is less important than Clintons' lying about his personal life, repulsive though it may have been?


The point is, why do some people think that Bush is somehow Clinton's opposite?


*EDIT*

I even started a thread about how, instead of refuting the claims that some Republican is lying, some people skirt the issue by yelling 'Clinton' at the top of their lungs.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

You're so weird Nicool003. Why don't you have an argument?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
You're so weird Nicool003. Why don't you have an argument?

Is this a personal attack, or is this going somewhere?

 

[Zero]

Hmmmmm...or to make things even more general, to make a better point. Just because politician A is caught in a lie by politician B, it is no guarantee that B isn't also a liar.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

How could that be construed as a personal attack? Nicool003 just simply doesn't seem to be taking a coherent viewpoint. A personal attack would be "~~~~ is an idiot!" or "~~~~ should leave!"

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
How could that be construed as a personal attack? Nicool003 just simply doesn't seem to be taking a coherent viewpoint. A personal attack would be "~~~~ is an idiot!" or "~~~~ should leave!"

Well, that is the strategy of the right-wing politicians and media, isn't it? Go on the counterattack whenever attacked, and hope that you simply drown out your opponents, instead of addressing an issue.

For instance, I've posted

http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm ? America spent years and millions of dollars to find out that Clinton was a lousy husband...can we spend a few minutes actually looking at the facts about Bush? (We can look up the word 'facts' if you like...you won't find them on Fox News.)

 

[russ_watters]

Clearly nearly all politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths. Bush is no exception. Integrity is important to me so its one of my criteria for voting. I voted for Bush as a lesser of two weevils - I didn't really like either him or Gore (I voted for McCain in the primary). But Bush has shown leadership and that's probably the most important characteristic right now (and its the reason his approval ratings are so high despite a lackluster economy).

 

[Nicool003]

Hmmm...but, somehow, Bush's lying about EVERYTHING is less important than Clintons' lying about his personal life, repulsive though it may have been?

Bush hasn't luied about anything. Give me some real true proof that he lied. You say he EVADES some topics. That isn't lying! duh! Maybe he doesn't have answers or would like to think them through. And everything clinton did for us was bad. Breaking down the military giving away military secrets...things like that. His wife practically ran the administration, he just destroyed things.

You're so weird Nicool003. Why don't you have an argument?

I have an argument was this post by zero an argument:

A Republican LYING? No way, they are all superhero saviors of humanity!

*snickers*QUOTE]

no it was a commmment so i did the same thing except for the democratic party. What are you a sore loser? And I have plenty arguments left in me.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Clearly nearly all politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths. Bush is no exception. Integrity is important to me so its one of my criteria for voting. I voted for Bush as a lesser of two weevils - I didn't really like either him or Gore (I voted for McCain in the primary). But Bush has shown leadership and that's probably the most important characteristic right now (and its the reason his approval ratings are so high despite a lackluster economy).

I don't really think Bush has shown any real leadership. In fact, I'm sure there is someone right now writing a book about the almost insane brainwashing that has occurred in America, that so long as teh man in charge shows teh symbols of leardership, and has teh right PR team, he doesn't have to do anything but stand there, and people will fill in the gaps for him. People are desperate for a leader, and teh media tells us that leader is Bush; therefore, most Americans believe Bush is a leader. Our general need, fed by fear, is the only reason people don't see him for the joke he is.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
I don't really think Bush has shown any real leadership.

There is no better way to get the respect of your troops than to mingle with them - for example by landing on a carrier and staying there for a night. The main purpose was probably publicity, but the action was still leadership at its purest.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
There is no better way to get the respect of your troops than to mingle with them - for example by landing on a carrier and staying there for a night. The main purpose was probably publicity, but the action was still leadership at its purest.

Hmmmmm...that's a joke of leadership, and you should know it. We used to LAUGH at people like him.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

If he's not lyin', then most economists are dead wrong abount the first principles of economics. This insane budget will simply destroy state infrastructure. Most states can't go into debt, and the Fed has a debt limit of about 600 Billion/yr, which we will soon exceed. My state has already raised taxes to cover the gap; a sales tax has been proposed as well as hiking the rates of auto registration. That's rediculous in a state of half a million people with lots of oil.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmmm...that's a joke of leadership, and you should know it. We used to LAUGH at people like him.

Thats not the way it was on my ship.

 

[Nicool003]

We still don't know where Bush was for his missing year of draftdodging...I mean NG service.

Your only saying that because we KNOW where your favorite president went. Bill Clinton RAN TO CANADA to avoid the draft. Then he gets in office and breaks down the military. And now he is out of office and he said in one interview "If there wasn't in age limit I would get in the trenches and fight with the troops" Huh yeah if the trenches were covered with 3 inches of bullet proof material and it had an escape root to china where his military friends are since they are happy about all our military information he gave them.

 

[damgo]

Nicool -- This is not a valid technique of debate. When I criticize X, and then you criticize Y, all you have claimed are X and Y are equally bad. So are Bush and Clinton *both* draft-dodgers?

Attack the argument, not the arguer.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nicool003
Your only saying that because we KNOW where your favorite president went. Bill Clinton RAN TO CANADA to avoid the draft. Then he gets in office and breaks down the military. And now he is out of office and he said in one interview "If there wasn't in age limit I would get in the trenches and fight with the troops" Huh yeah if the trenches were covered with 3 inches of bullet proof material and it had an escape root to china where his military friends are since they are happy about all our military information he gave them.

And this refutes what I said about Bush...how? Clinton avoided Vietnam, but so did Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc...Gore went as a journalist, and has played down his involvement. Bush Sr. was an actual airman, I guess, and Kerry and McCain both served honorably, to my knowledge.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

If there were a draft today, lots of people would avoid it. There are different ways of avoid it than dessertion.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
If there were a draft today, lots of people would avoid it. There are different ways of avoid it than dessertion.

Is this a hint about Bush's missing year from the military?

BTW, obviously Clinton didn't 'flee to Canada'...that's just a silly thing to say, don't you think?

 

[schwarzchildradius]

He fled to Oxford and learned how to be a lawyer, as a Rhodes scholar.

 

[Zero]

Just a correction...Donald Rumsfeld was already a Navy veteran before Vietnam. Cheney, however, avoided the war through student deferments, just like Clinton. “I had other priorities in the ’60s than military service,” said Cheney, and so did Clinton. You don't pass up being a Rhodes scholar for much.

 

[qwpoi]

The wierdest and maybe most desparate was the blatant fabrication of official Iraqi documents designed to lead the UN to believe that Iraq was persuing Nuclear weapons. The IAEA took one look and within a week rejected them as fakes and frauds.

Nicool, you haven't addressed this. If you want to say that they didn't in fact lie you could argue that they were simply too stupid to have the documents checked over for veracity.

Which is the scarier assumption?

And Bush's PR tactics are just amazing. His administration is obsessed with looking good.

And how about the sacking of the Baghad National Library and Museum? And Rumsfeld's flippant response--I can't remember it exactly, but it went something like 'oh, the TVs show the same vase being stolen 20 times.' Completely disregarding the fact that the pentagon was *repeatedly warned* about the necessity of protecting these two infrastructures containing 7000 years of history? I consider the loss of these artifacts to be one of the most devastating losses that could have been easily prevented if Bush had had the foresight to put just *one* tank. But apparently culture doesn't matter anymore. And the White House's statement that they didn't anticipate that the Iraqis would be looting their own buildings: patently untrue. Unless they want to claim ignorance to history. Same thing happened on a much less tragic scale during the Gulf War. There is precedent for it.

Where does your venom come from Nicool? Please construct a rational argument that has some semblance of a thesis, or at least a point. A point that is not, Bush rules, Clinton sucks. Even so called Democrats have reasons and arguments as to why they dislike Bush, which they can then put forth and debate with others who may have different points of view. IN A RATIONAL MANNER.

 

[Adam]

Politicians lie?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Adam
Politicians lie?

Only when their lips are moving...