News Do Politicians' Lies Depend More on Their Party or the Lie Itself?

[Zero]

Clinton was a political moderate, which brings up a few lies about him, and Bush, seeing as how Bush was blasted for continuing certain programs started by Clinton.

As far as this administration's anti-American behavior...of course they use the WTC attack to justify anything, but it is certainly traitorous to let them.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Kat, I did mention the lie that Clinton was a liberal, didn't I?

Lol, Zero..which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?

I don't really remember specifics about Carter, I suppose I should some day delve into his presidency..I do remember that he wasn't a particularly good president, even if he was very intelligent and maybe even a good man..but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you?

 

[kyleb]

are you trying to justify the situation with moral relativity kat?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Lol, Zero..which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?

I don't really remember specifics about Carter, I suppose I should some day delve into his presidency..I do remember that he wasn't a particularly good president, even if he was very intelligent and maybe even a good man..but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you?

Carter was...better than people say, but faced with tough decisions. He has found his true calling post-presidency. Of course, the current pack of ultra-right wing hacks is degrading him publicly, for daring to speak against their messiah, Bush. When someone wins a Nobel Prize, you should maybe respect the man, if not his views.

Gore isn't that bad at all, actually, since most of what I heard about him was lies and stories blown way out of proportion.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Carter was...better than people say, but faced with tough decisions. He has found his true calling post-presidency. Of course, the current pack of ultra-right wing hacks is degrading him publicly, for daring to speak against their messiah, Bush. When someone wins a Nobel Prize, you should maybe respect the man, if not his views.

Gore isn't that bad at all, actually, since most of what I heard about him was lies and stories blown way out of proportion.

Well, I don't really care to judge by what people say, I'll judge on my research when I get time to do it. I only meant that my remembrances of his presidency were that he was a bit wishy washy and maybe not as effective as he could have been..but I wasn't so old then either so my memory may reflect that of the adults in my life more so then a factual basis.

As for the Nobel prize, I respect Carter for what he has done that I am familiar with..but not because of the Nobel Prize..Arafat won the peace prize as well, and well I'm sorry..I cannot give him my respect.

As for Gore, I don't think he was a bad man..but his honesty as a president can not be proven or disproven as he has not reached that office. So to me it's irrelevant to my questions, of which you really haven't answered, so I will repeat, if you don't mind.

"which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?"
" but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you? "

 

[kat]

Originally posted by kyleb
are you trying to justify the situation with moral relativity kat?

Not a chance.

 

[kyleb]

then what is your point?

 

[Zero]

Hey, Kat, The last 'liberal' president was Kennedy, I'm sure. Politicians aren't ever truly liberal.

 

[Sting]

A little off topic, but just to note about the nature of politicians...

I was at a dinner party one night a few months ago and there was this politician who was currently running against an incumbent (party affiliation purposely withheld). This guy picked up my baby nephew and was just holding him with absolute interest. When notifying him that we lived in a different voting district and there was no recent gerrymandering, he hands the baby back and "well got to go."

Politics is such a dirty game

This is why I avoided becoming a political science major and going into politics because of the whole "going on campaign to shake babies and kiss hands" thing.

 

[kat]

oops, missed your post kyleb. I think if you glance back through this thread and read my previous post you'll see that I've previously made my point.

 

[Nicool003]

Oh, please, Nicool003, you think Clinton's personal life is more important than Cheney's illegal activities with the energy companies, or his dealings with Saddam Hussien, or any of the countless un-American acts of the current cabal occupying the White House.

Dealings with Saddam Hussien?! Cheney?! Give me proof that isn't from Clinton or Al Gore!


And no I take into consideration BILL CLINTON dealing with Chinese and Russian military (HE GAVE THEM MILITARY SECRETS FOR PETES SAKES)
and his immature scum deliberately destroyed thousands of dollars of furniture and white house property before they moved out and PRESIDENT Bush moved in.

 

[kyleb]

Originally posted by kat
oops, missed your post kyleb. I think if you glance back through this thread and read my previous post you'll see that I've previously made my point.

well i have been reading along but that bit about Carter is what struck me off guard, it seemed like you were saying that what Bush is doing now is justfied somehow by what Carter did back then.

 

[damgo]

Nicool, I don't know about Cheney, but Rumsfeld was Special Envoy to Baghdad in 1984 (date?) or around then. At that point, the US was actively supported in Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war: selling them arms, providing them with intelligence, offering them US Navy protection, and 'reflagging' their tankers (putting US flags on them so Iranian ships could not sink them.)

Iraq had started the war against Iran, to seize the valuable land on Iran's side of the Shatt al Arab river -- just as it later started a war to seize Kuwait -- and by that time, Iraq had begun using chemical weapons against Iran, mainly against Pasdaran "human wave" assaults. At this time, Rumsfeld was in Baghdad, instructing Saddam on the finer points of killing Iranians. Take a look (sorry I couldn't find a better pic): http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~alis/rumsfeldnsaddam.jpg

There are plenty of recent articles about this if you do a Google news search.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nicool003
Dealings with Saddam Hussien?! Cheney?! Give me proof that isn't from Clinton or Al Gore!


And no I take into consideration BILL CLINTON dealing with Chinese and Russian military (HE GAVE THEM MILITARY SECRETS FOR PETES SAKES)
and his immature scum deliberately destroyed thousands of dollars of furniture and white house property before they moved out and PRESIDENT Bush moved in.

Just because you don't like facts, it doesn't make them go away...and you should stop ranting, you would come across much better if you turned the volume down, ok?

And if you still believe the lie about Clinton vandalizing the White House, you won't be able to keep up with political reality, now will you?

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
And if you still believe the lie about Clinton vandalizing the White House, you won't be able to keep up with political reality, now will you?

Thats not a lie, Zero, its a tradition. Most presidents do it. Clinton just took it to the extreme.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Thats not a lie, Zero, its a tradition. Most presidents do it. Clinton just took it to the extreme.

The way it was reported was a lie. It was reported that he cleaned teh place out, and broke whatever he couldn't take. Some people reported it like he was stealing from the White House. There were plenty of retractions...on page 17.

 

[Nicool003]

Just because you don't like facts, it doesn't make them go away...and you should stop ranting, you would come across much better if you turned the volume down, ok?

No I am not "ranting" for petes sakes I should probably just leave PF because almost EVERYONE that comes into the PaWa forum is a blasted democrat! You say "i can't accept the facts" what bull crap! You are the one that twists everything me, russ, alias, or one of the few other republicans, independents or FAIR PEOPLE that come here. You are the one that is Pro Bill clinton, the jerk that didn't do ANYTHING but since most Americans got lazy until 9/11 woke us up, that was just "FINE" because they didn't want anything to happen. Well thanks to his laziness we weren't ready for anything. Had another president won things would have faired much better. He brought down the military pay, cut people out of the military, gave secrets to the enemy... oh the list doesn't end. And by the way, I'm not a republican exactly, although since I have started looking at the PaWa forum and seen all the democratic Lies, I have started leaning that way.

 

[kyleb]

lol Nicool003, you should stick around and learn something instead. you might be supervised to know that i am not a democrat by any means. i live in one of the most republican states in the country, and while i am not as right wing as most of the people here Kansas, i tend to prefer republican candidates in general. i am generally against authoritarianism but personally i am rather conservative; but it isn't about taking a side for me, it is standing up for what i believe is best for us all.

 

[Nicool003]

lol Nicool003, you should stick around and learn something instead. you might be supervised to know that i am not a democrat by any means. i live in one of the most republican states in the country, and while i am not as right wing as most of the people here Kansas, i tend to prefer republican candidates in general. i am generally against authoritarianism but personally i am rather conservative; but it isn't about taking a side for me, it is standing up for what i believe is best for us all

I didn't say you were democrat. Although when we first met we didn't get along at all, that wasn't a political matter such as world affair. I never thought you were democrat.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nicool003
No I am not "ranting" for petes sakes I should probably just leave PF because almost EVERYONE that comes into the PaWa forum is a blasted democrat! You say "i can't accept the facts" what bull crap! You are the one that twists everything me, russ, alias, or one of the few other republicans, independents or FAIR PEOPLE that come here. You are the one that is Pro Bill clinton, the jerk that didn't do ANYTHING but since most Americans got lazy until 9/11 woke us up, that was just "FINE" because they didn't want anything to happen. Well thanks to his laziness we weren't ready for anything. Had another president won things would have faired much better. He brought down the military pay, cut people out of the military, gave secrets to the enemy... oh the list doesn't end. And by the way, I'm not a republican exactly, although since I have started looking at the PaWa forum and seen all the democratic Lies, I have started leaning that way.

This isn't a rant? Calm down, and if you can't stay calm, take up fishing or something. It isn't my fault you are wrong. Very often wrong, if you think I 'support' any politician.

 

[Nicool003]

This isn't a rant? Calm down, and if you can't stay calm, take up fishing or something.

Ha. That was no rant. It's called a well thought out and written post. And I hate fish.

It isn't my fault you are wrong. Very often wrong, if you think I 'support' any politician.

I am not wrong. You have not proven me wrong yet so sorry if you think you did. And you definately support clinton. Read your posts.

 

[Ganshauk]

Once again, class.

Its not what they say, but what they do.

More importantly, how has it affected you? Personally, I mean.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ganshauk
Once again, class.

Its not what they say, but what they do.

More importantly, how has it affected you? Personally, I mean.

By your definition, Clinton was one of your better moderate Republican presidents. And, of course, much of Bush's policy-making that was blasted by the 'left' was simply continuation of Clinton policy.

 

[FZ+]

Originally posted by Nicool003
I am not wrong. You have not proven me wrong yet so sorry if you think you did. And you definately support clinton. Read your posts.

I think you make a mistake. Zero prefers Clinton over Bush. I agree with him. I would prefer most presidents over Bush. It's relative, really.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by FZ+
I think you make a mistake. Zero prefers Clinton over Bush. I agree with him. I would prefer most presidents over Bush. It's relative, really.

Oh yeah, in the same way that I prefer Bush to a hot poker in the eye...it is all relative.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by kyleb
well i have been reading along but that bit about Carter is what struck me off guard, it seemed like you were saying that what Bush is doing now is justfied somehow by what Carter did back then.

no, I only pointed out that I had no recollection of Carter lying and that, that did not mean he did not, only that I could not recall. Other then Carter I can't think of a president I don't recall lying.
In fact, other then Carter, I can't recall a president that I could not give a long list of lies and shadey dealings.
Therefor, this is not a partisan issue.
If it is not a partisan issue then..argueing it in a partisan manner prevents resolution.

 

[Nicool003]

Clinton was one of your better moderate Republican presidents

Zero either you know nothing about clinton and defend him blindly or you missed that he was a big time DEMOCRAT

 

[kyleb]

Nicool003, either know nothing about Clinton and accept labeling blindly or you missed that he acted like a republican.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Nicool003
Zero either you know nothing about clinton and defend him blindly or you missed that he was a big time DEMOCRAT

This is why I suggested in another thread to avoid generalizations. Policy-wise, Clinton was moderate leaning towards conservative in most cases. The comfortable lie is to believe that moderates are liberals, isn't it? That way, the conservative extremists can claim to be moderate themselves.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by kyleb
Nicool003, either know nothing about Clinton and accept labeling blindly or you missed that he acted like a republican.

Yeah, most republicans want to cut the military, increase spending on social programs, and ignore foreign policy... [?]

If you guys think that Clinton was conservative, that pegs you WAAAAY left on the political spectrum.