Do we need to refer all interactions to symmetries?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of associating interactions in physics with underlying symmetries, particularly in the context of quantum field theory (QFT) and renormalization. Participants explore whether it is possible to construct theories of interactions, such as gravity, without relying on symmetry principles, and they examine specific cases like electroweak theory and quantum chromodynamics (QCD).

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether all interactions must be linked to symmetries, suggesting that gravity could be an example of an interaction that does not require symmetry theory.
  • Another participant argues that not all interactions are tied to underlying symmetries, noting that while many interactions in QFT are associated with gauge symmetries, Yukawa interactions involving scalars and fermions do not necessarily have such connections.
  • There is a discussion about the differences in renormalization requirements between electroweak theory and QCD, with one participant highlighting that the presence of massive gauge bosons and the distinct treatment of left- and right-handed fermions complicate the renormalization of electroweak theory.
  • A participant raises the issue of gravity being a nonrenormalizable theory, questioning why certain nonrenormalizable interactions are dismissed while others are considered, and why nonperturbative theories or symmetries are sought to manage infinite counterterms.
  • Another participant inquires about the deduction of gauge bosons having spin 1 in the Standard Model and why force-carrying particles must be bosons rather than fermions.
  • One participant mentions Supersymmetry theory and its proposed symmetry between bosons and fermions, seeking clarification on its implications for the Standard Model.
  • A later reply addresses a perceived lack of etiquette in the discussion, suggesting that participants should acknowledge responses to their questions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between interactions and symmetries, with no consensus reached on whether all interactions must be associated with symmetries. The discussion on renormalization also reveals competing perspectives, particularly regarding electroweak theory and QCD.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of nonrenormalizability and the conditions under which certain interactions are accepted or rejected, highlighting the complexity of the topic without resolving the underlying assumptions or definitions involved.

ndung200790
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Do we innevitably need to attach each interaction with a symmetry?Could we contruct a theory of an interaction without using any symmetry theory(example gravity interaction)?

Why do we not need to demonstate QCD being renormalized,but we must demonstrate electroweak theory is renormalized(I hear t'Hooft did that)?Is that because we separate left handed from righ handed representation,then appearing the chiral anomalies,so we must demonstrate the renormalization?If the left-righ handedness were reserved in electroweak theory,then we would not to have demonstrate the renormalization as QCD?
 
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Not every possible interaction is related to an underlying symmetry.
In QFT, many interactions are attached to gauge symmetries (any interaction with spin 1 particle).
However, interactions invloving scalars and fermions (like yukawa interactions) are not nescesaraly related to any symmetry. For examples, ineratctions of the higgs with fermions
in the SM are not related/dictated by any underlying symmetry.

For the question about renormalization, there are two reasons why renormalizability in Electro-Weak theory is less obvious than in qcd.
1) Massive gauge bosons

-It has been shown that if the masses are due to the higgs mechanism the theory is still renormalizable.

2) left are right handed fermions have different gauge interactions (transform differently under the gauge symmetry) - chiral theory

-It has been shown that the SM is still renormalizable due to intricate cancelation between the gauge quantum numbers of the SM fermions. The gauge anomalies vanish
 
The gravity interaction is a real(existing) interaction despite the gravity theory is nonrenormalizable theory.But in elimination (infinite) impossible interactions they consider nonrenormalizable interactions being impossible interactions(for example Phi-5,Phi-6...interactions,but only accepted Phi-4theory).Why do they not accept all those nonrenormalizable interactions and manage to bypass the nonrenormalizability by ''nonperturbative'' theories or finding some ''symmetries'' that reduce infinite counterterms to finite counterterms?
 
How can we deduce the gauge bosons have spin 1 from Standard Model?Why must carrying force particles be bosons,but they can not be fermions?
 
I hear in Supersymmetry theory there is a ''symmetry'' between bosons and fermions(?).But I would like to know the problem in Standard Model
 
I see you didn't follow my advice in the previous thread; two-thirds of it is reproduced below.

  • https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=3588
  • It is customary to say "thank you" when you ask a question and have it answered.
 
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