Does Our Solar System's Orbit Through the Galaxy Cause Magnetic Pole Reversals?

[korben dallas]

I once read our solar system resides close the edge of our galaxy and that it has an up and down orbit that swings it from the bottom to the top of our galaxy. If this is true then I presume we pass through the disk-like magnetic field that the super-massive black hole at our galaxy's center creates and would not then the polarity reversal of our galaxy's magnetic field , as we pass from the positive to the negative and back again (every 27000 years or so), cause our solar system and all the planets therein to experience pole reversal? I can only hope you can understand the question. Peace!

 

[Drakkith]

Any magnetic field by this singularity would NOT have any major effects on us. Our system is 25,000 light years from galactic center. Thats a LONG way, even for something like a magnetic field.

For comparison, the largest known magnetic fields come from a type of Neutron stars known as magnetars, which have magnetic fields millions of times the strength of earth. One of these would have to be as close as the moon is to Earth to wipe the data off of credit cards. So unless this magnetic field was something like 10^15 times as strong (just pulling that number out of nowhere), then it wouldn't even be noticeable here in our solar system, let alone strong enough to force a polarity reversal of the planets and the sun. If that's even possible to begin with.

Also, do you have any link to something that says the black hole at the center of the galaxy is putting out a magnetic field?

 

[Antiphon]

Would two magnetars on a collision course with poles aimed at each other experience an elastic non-contact collision owing to their (assume repulsive) magnetic fields or are they simply too massive to prevent a collision?

 

[Drakkith]

Would two magnetars on a collision course with poles aimed at each other experience an elastic non-contact collision owing to their (assume repulsive) magnetic fields or are they simply too massive to prevent a collision?

Hrmm, interesting question. While extremely remote, I guess it IS possible lol.

I would say that depends on the strength of the fields and the mass of both magnetars. I have no idea how to crunch the numbers though.

 

[korben dallas]

Thank you for the reply. I am sorry i don't have a link but the info I got or get is mostly from the discovery channel or some other science show and what one physicist(I think it was the distinguished Michio Kaku) said was that our galaxy's black hole is not normal or regular but is in fact a "spinning" super-massive black hole and that because of the size and strength it's mag-field does not behave like a normal spherical mag-field but is in fact flat like a disk that reaches all the way out to the edge of our galaxy and is sandwiched in the middle like a piece of meat between 2 slices of bread. I believe when we pass through it , as I described in my post, we are in fact going from the positive to the nagative , or visa-versa, and I believe this to be cause our solar system and planets past pole reversals. Peace!

 

[Drakkith]

From this site, http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/RebeccaRudberg.shtml , it says that the galactic magnetic field is about 0.5-2 nanoteslas, which is WAAY under the strength of Earth's magnetic field, which is 50 microteslas, about 500-2,000 stronger than the galactic field. This fields has a very negligible effect and would not cause something like a pole reversal.

 

[korben dallas]

Thank You Drakkith! Wonderful link, Thanx! I am appreciative for your time and the very helpful info your answer provides! Peace!

 

[Drakkith]

Anytime.

 

[Chronos]

Shades of 2012, the coming apocalypse. The Earth regularly passes through the galactic ecliptic. Happens all the time. What is special about 2012? - the sun and Earth happens to be aligned with the galactic core on the day of the winter solstice. What does that prove - aside from confirming astrological superstition is still alive and well? Every planet in the solar system has the same 'experience' sooner or later. Sorry, I don't subscribe to 'earth is special' anecdotes.

 

[Dotini]

From this site, http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/RebeccaRudberg.shtml , it says that the galactic magnetic field is about 0.5-2 nanoteslas, which is WAAY under the strength of Earth's magnetic field, which is 50 microteslas, about 500-2,000 stronger than the galactic field. This fields has a very negligible effect and would not cause something like a pole reversal.

I could not open your link, and was wondering if Rudberg or you were debunking or dismissing the findings of NASA's IBEX space mission?http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331114935.htm
In a paper to be published in the April 10, 2011, issue of The Astrophysical Journal, scientists on NASA's Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) mission, including lead author Nathan Schwadron and others from the University of New Hampshire, isolate and resolve the mysterious "ribbon" of energy and particles the spacecraft discovered in the heliosphere -- the huge bubble that surrounds our solar system and protects us from galactic cosmic rays. The finding, which overturns 40 years of theory, provides insight into the fundamental structure of the heliosphere.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091016112630.htm
"The most striking feature is the ribbon that appears to be controlled by the magnetic field of our galaxy," says Schwadron.

Although scientists knew that their models would be tested by the IBEX measurements, the existence of the ribbon is "remarkable" says Geoffrey Crew, a Research Scientist at MIT and the Software Design Lead for IBEX. "It suggests that the galactic magnetic fields are much stronger and exert far greater stresses on the heliosphere than we previously believed."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0112171811.htm
"By activating IBEX, we suddenly see that the solar system has a lit candle and see its light reflected in the 'cave walls' shining back at us," says Posner. "What we find is that the 'cave wall' acts more like a faint mirror than like a normal wall," he adds.

What we saw with IBEX is that this "cave" we are exploring apparently has very straight and smooth magnetic walls, being shaped somewhat like a subway tunnel. IBEX can remotely observe the direction of the local interstellar magnetic field and may observe whether it stays the same or changes over time.

The sun's presence affects the local interstellar magnetic field, bulging the field out to form something larger that is similar to a subway station. However, the "station" itself, our heliosphere, slowly moves along the tunnel, not subway cars.

Straight magnetic field lines are only found in plasmas where the magnetic field is strong and shapes the flow of particles, such as the smooth magnetic loops observed in the sun's corona.

The IBEX results appear consistent with a recent finding by the Voyager mission that the surrounding galactic magnetic field in the LISM is much stronger than previously thought.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

 

[Drakkith]

I could not open your link, and was wondering if Rudberg or you were debunking or dismissing the findings of NASA's IBEX space mission?

Not at all. I wasn't even away of IBEX before i read your post. I merely did a quick google search and found that site.

The links in your post were very interesting. However, the galactic magnetic field is still far weaker than our planets and that of the sun here locally. The only reason it has such an effect on our heliosphere and such is because the suns magnetic field is also very weak at that range. It cannot influence the planets and the sun itself enough to cause any major pole reversals or anything like that.

 

[korben dallas]

I could not open your link, and was wondering if Rudberg or you were debunking or dismissing the findings of NASA's IBEX space mission?http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331114935.htm
In a paper to be published in the April 10, 2011, issue of The Astrophysical Journal, scientists on NASA's Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) mission, including lead author Nathan Schwadron and others from the University of New Hampshire, isolate and resolve the mysterious "ribbon" of energy and particles the spacecraft discovered in the heliosphere -- the huge bubble that surrounds our solar system and protects us from galactic cosmic rays. The finding, which overturns 40 years of theory, provides insight into the fundamental structure of the heliosphere.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091016112630.htm
"The most striking feature is the ribbon that appears to be controlled by the magnetic field of our galaxy," says Schwadron.

Although scientists knew that their models would be tested by the IBEX measurements, the existence of the ribbon is "remarkable" says Geoffrey Crew, a Research Scientist at MIT and the Software Design Lead for IBEX. "It suggests that the galactic magnetic fields are much stronger and exert far greater stresses on the heliosphere than we previously believed."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0112171811.htm
"By activating IBEX, we suddenly see that the solar system has a lit candle and see its light reflected in the 'cave walls' shining back at us," says Posner. "What we find is that the 'cave wall' acts more like a faint mirror than like a normal wall," he adds.

What we saw with IBEX is that this "cave" we are exploring apparently has very straight and smooth magnetic walls, being shaped somewhat like a subway tunnel. IBEX can remotely observe the direction of the local interstellar magnetic field and may observe whether it stays the same or changes over time.

The sun's presence affects the local interstellar magnetic field, bulging the field out to form something larger that is similar to a subway station. However, the "station" itself, our heliosphere, slowly moves along the tunnel, not subway cars.

Straight magnetic field lines are only found in plasmas where the magnetic field is strong and shapes the flow of particles, such as the smooth magnetic loops observed in the sun's corona.

The IBEX results appear consistent with a recent finding by the Voyager mission that the surrounding galactic magnetic field in the LISM is much stronger than previously thought.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

Interesting! So what they are saying is the galaxy's magnetic field might have more "influence" on our solar system than previously thought, or am reading into it a little much?? Wouldn't any magnetic field inside the heliosphere then be controlled by the sun being influenced by the galaxy? I mean, it stands to reason. Right?

 

[fuzzysq]

if a person created a magnetic field, how long will it last, and does it have to be sustained by something to last so the magnetic field won't go away

 

[Drakkith]

if a person created a magnetic field, how long will it last, and does it have to be sustained by something to last so the magnetic field won't go away

See here for the basics on a magnetic field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

The key here is this:

A magnetic field is a field of force produced by moving electric charges, by electric fields that vary in time, and by the 'intrinsic' magnetic field of elementary particles associated with the spin of the particle.

This means that you MUST be moving electrons or other charged particles to create a magnetic field, OR that you have some sort of permanent magnet which uses the intrinsic spins of its particles to generate the magnetic field. As such, electromagnets require a constant source of power to maintain their field.

 

[Dotini]

Interesting! So what they are saying is the galaxy's magnetic field might have more "influence" on our solar system than previously thought, or am reading into it a little much?? Wouldn't any magnetic field inside the heliosphere then be controlled by the sun being influenced by the galaxy? I mean, it stands to reason. Right?

Hi, korben dallas, thanks for your post!

In the following two articles we get the ideas that (1) the shape of the heliosphere is related to the sun's direction of travel and that (2) the shape of the heliosphere is related to galactic magnetic fields. If those ideas are both correct, then the simplest logic dictates that the sun's direction of travel is related to galactic magnetic fields. This boggles my puny mind.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/04/110407-sun-nose-scorpius-solar-system-nasa-ibex-ribbon-space-science/

A NASA spacecraft has uncovered the solar system's "nose," which points in the direction our sun is moving through the Milky Way galaxy, astronomers say.

The finding is based on newly released data from the Interstellar Boundary Explorer satellite (IBEX), an Earth-orbiting probe that has been mapping the solar system's outer frontier since 2008.

As the sun travels through the galaxy, the solar wind—actually charged particles streaming from the sun—collides with interstellar gases, forming a cocoon around the solar system called the heliosphere.

The edge of this cocoon, the heliopause, lies more than 9 billion miles (14.5 billion kilometers) from the sun.

"The Voyager spacecraft s were the first to reach these outer boundaries, and [they] gave us very localized information," said study leader Nathan Schwadron of the University of New Hampshire. (See "Solar System Is 'Bullet Shaped.'")

"But IBEX now allows us to pull back and finally show us its global properties. We are now overturning 40 years of theories about this gigantic bubble which surrounds and protects our solar system from harmful galactic cosmic rays," high-energy particles that zip through the universe. (Related picture: "Cosmic Ray Mystery Solved?")

Cosmic rays constantly bombard our solar system, but the heliosphere shields us from most of the radiation. Still, the small amounts that leak through and reach Earth can fry satellite electronics and pose a health hazard for astronauts.

Sun Aimed at Cosmic Scorpion

In 2009 IBEX revealed a vast ribbon of atoms snaking its way along the solar system's edge. While intriguing, this ribbon was preventing astronomers from mapping the entire heliosphere.

Now Schwadron and his team have finally been able to digitally subtract the intense emissions given off by this mysterious ribbon, revealing the heliosphere's nose. This feature, like the bow of a ship, appears at the leading edge of the windsock-like heliosphere.

"It turns out that the ribbon happens to go right through this region of the heliosphere, so we just had to pull back that curtain to reveal its signal," Schwadron said.

This nose appears to point in the general direction of the zodiacal constellation Scorpius. From our perspective, Scorpius follows the ecliptic, or the path of Earth's orbit around the sun. Scorpius rises during the summer months in the Northern Hemisphere.

The study authors are still puzzling out what this—and other IBEX data—tells us about the sun's overall trajectory. But it looks like the sun may be following a short, wavelike path that takes it above and below the galactic plane a few times during each orbit around the galaxy's center.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070510-solar-system.html

Our solar system flies through space in the shape of a speeding bullet, according to data from NASA's two Voyager spacecraft .
The sun and its planets are known to streak through the void of space at approximately 62,000 miles (100,000 kilometers) an hour.

The system travels within a bubble of solar wind—made of charged particles from the sun—called the heliosphere.

The edge of this bubble collides with the Milky Way galaxy's magnetic field at a distance some 200 times farther from the sun than Earth is.

A research team led by Merav Opher at Virginia's George Mason University found that, just outside the solar system, this interstellar magnetic field is inclined at a 60-degree angle relative to the plane of the Milky Way.

The solar system takes on its streamlined shape as it strikes the magnetic field at this angle, Opher explained.

Opher's team reports its findings in tomorrow's issue of the journal Science.

The study has added new wrinkles to evolving views of the interstellar magnetic field, said Randy Jokipii, an astrophysicist at the University of Arizona.

"[The study] does indeed give us a magnetic field which is quite a bit different than that obtained by previous measurements," Jokipii said.

"In the last few years we've seen almost an explosion in our understanding of what I'd call the … local interstellar medium and its interaction with the heliosphere," added Jokipii, who provided a perspective article to the Science research

Respectfully submitted, seeking correction,
Dotini

 

[Drakkith]

Hi, korben dallas, thanks for your post!

In the following two articles we get the ideas that (1) the shape of the heliosphere is related to the sun's direction of travel and that (2) the shape of the heliosphere is related to galactic magnetic fields. If those ideas are both correct, then the simplest logic dictates that the sun's direction of travel is related to galactic magnetic fields. This boggles my puny mind.

I'd say the galactic magnetic field might have a very weak effect on long term effects such as oscillations up and down as the sun travels, but I doubt that it has any major effect on the direction of the overall movement of the sun.

 

[korben dallas]

Dotini, this excerpt from your post,

"The study authors are still puzzling out what this—and other IBEX data—tells us about the sun's overall trajectory. But it looks like the sun may be following a short, wavelike path that takes it above and below the galactic plane a few times during each orbit around the galaxy's center."

,is what I am getting at. Our galaxy's MF can not have just one pole so when we traverse in this "Wavelike path" we repeatedly pass through the galaxy's disc-like MF going from positive to negative, but, unlike the Earth's or our sun's sphere-like MF, we are not really "immersed" in it until we are "exactly" in the middle of the MF where both poles would have the same influence on our solar system. Once we are passed this "tipping point" the solar system is only influenced by one pole of our galaxy's MF and whether it is positive or negative does not matter. What does matter is the fact the influence our sun's MF has on the Earth is not the same as the galaxy's influence on the solar system. Because there is no friction in space I believe our solar system is effected the same way as when you take two magnets and glue one to the table and then put the other magnet at one end. If the poles don't attract then the magnet that is not glued down will physically flip. I think this is what happens to our solar system except just the MF's poles flip and not the sun or Earth themselves. Does anyone know of any scientific data that clearly disputes this crazy, unproven thought of mine? Peace Brothers!

 

[Drakkith]

Korben, I simply can't see the extremely low strength of the galactic magnetic field to have any major effects on the fields of the sun/earth on the timescale required by this. Do you have any evidence to support what you are saying? Because that's pretty much what you need here.

 

[Dotini]

Korben and Drakkith,

Paleomagnetic records, such as they are, show a puzzling and irregular pattern of reversals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleomagnetism

I would be astonished if they could be correlated to our sun passing from one side of the galactic plane to the other. That would really be too good to be true!

The sun changes polarity on a regular and cyclic basis, but not the Earth.

Respectfully,
Dotini

 

[korben dallas]

Korben, I simply can't see the extremely low strength of the galactic magnetic field to have any major effects on the fields of the sun/earth on the timescale required by this. Do you have any evidence to support what you are saying? Because that's pretty much what you need here.

I am not saying this is what is happening, I am asking if it is at all possible? The "evidence" you are asking for boils down to the natural laws of physics in which magnetics play a major role and, even if "I" don't know what they are, the laws still apply. As weak as the galaxy's MF may be it must still have significant "power" in the center to affect any celestial system/body that passes through! Now then, where "spherical" MF's are concerned, everyone knows the farther away from a MF the weaker the effect, but what about the galaxy's "disc-shaped" MF. I have read that we pass though the center of this field every 27,000 years or so. I say this in hopes of someone being able to relate this time period with any known galactic, solar or terrestrial event. I am not educated so don't anyone think that I am saying this is true because I am in fact asking. Once again, our galaxy's MF is flat and disc-shaped and the only way I know how to describe it is to take two cd disks and put a slice of balonga in between and face them on edge. The cd's now represent the poles and the slice of meat is the galaxy's MF through which our solar systems "orbit" takes us.The same thing might happen to the sun or Earth the way a compass' needle would "flip" if it were to be taken from the Earth's north pole to the south pole, and we have to remember, we are immersed in the sun and the Earth's MF and are being influenced, however weak, by both poles at the same time but the same cannot be said for the galaxy's MF. Just by the galaxy's MF'S very nature we are subjected to the effects of only one pole at a time until we reach or get closer to, and continue through, the very center of the "meat". Something, however many thousands of years it takes, has to happen. It's the law! Right? Peace Brothers! P.S. Aren't pole reversal timelines on Earth gaged by averages of thousands of years?

 

[Drakkith]

The same thing might happen to the sun or Earth the way a compass' needle would "flip" if it were to be taken from the Earth's north pole to the south pole, and we have to remember, we are immersed in the sun and the Earth's MF and are being influenced, however weak, by both poles at the same time but the same cannot be said for the galaxy's MF

I'm not sure what you mean by "being influenced by both poles at the same time". Magnetic fields loop from one pole to the other. We are always effected by "both" poles of every magnetic source. There aren't any magnetic monopoles (as far as we know) so even the galactic MF has "both" of its poles affecting us.

Also, I think you are misunderstanding the way the magnetic field works. Going through the center of the galaxy doesn't suddenly cause a "flip" the same way a compass doesn't suddenly "flip" when you cross the equator or when you take it to the south pole. The north end of a needle points towards the north pole because the north end of the needle is actually the south pole of that needle. (South is attracted to North) Taking a compass close to the south pole does nothing to the compass, it still functions exactly the same as it did.

 

[korben dallas]

I'm not sure what you mean by "being influenced by both poles at the same time". Magnetic fields loop from one pole to the other. We are always effected by "both" poles of every magnetic source. There aren't any magnetic monopoles (as far as we know) so even the galactic MF has "both" of its poles affecting us.

Also, I think you are misunderstanding the way the magnetic field works. Going through the center of the galaxy doesn't suddenly cause a "flip" the same way a compass doesn't suddenly "flip" when you cross the equator or when you take it to the south pole. The north end of a needle points towards the north pole because the north end of the needle is actually the south pole of that needle. (South is attracted to North) Taking a compass close to the south pole does nothing to the compass, it still functions exactly the same as it did.

You are totally correct when you say I may not know how magnetics work but it still does not change what the link provided by Dotini describes which is , in essence, a pole reversal. With the galactic MF being flat and not "normal", "how" are we affected by both poles when we are totally immersed in only one of them at a time? The Earth's MF is "not flat". The galactic MF "is flat" and therefore does not behave the same way a normal MF does. Thats Michio kaku saying this, not myself. If the Earth's MF does not change in effect, from north to south, then why, in Australia, do the toilets flush in the opposite direction of ours? On the same token, why does a tornado down there spin counter-clockwise? I know I take great risk when I ask this question Drakith, but I ask it in a totally respective manner so please do not take offence! The question is "are you familiar with the galactic MF" and it's "not normal" behavior? Peace Brothers!

 

[Drakkith]

If the Earth's MF does not change in effect, from north to south, then why, in Australia, do the toilets flush in the opposite direction of ours? On the same token, why does a tornado down there spin counter-clockwise?

First, I've never said that field reversals don't happen. The evidence for them is there and I don't disagree.

Second, things flush backwards or spin backwards from us due to the different orientation compared to the spin of the earth. And I'm not actually sure that things do spin backwards in different hemispheres due to that. I'm pretty sure I've read something here on PF saying that the effects is very minor and the direction of spin is more to do with the inital conditions of the fluid and how they are affected by the different forces on them, such as air speed/direction ETC.

Also, if you are referring to the link to the grandunification.com site, that guy is a moron. Don't listen to what you read on his site.

 

[D H]

Thread locked pending moderation.

 

[D H]

There is no reason to invoke a mysterious galactic connection to the reversals of Earth's magnetic field. Those reversals are now fairly well understood thanks to the Glatzmaier-Roberts model of the geodynamo. (You might just want to google that term.)