Does the Tidal Effect Cause Planets to Move Away from the Sun?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether the tidal effect causes planets to move away from the Sun, exploring the complexities of planetary orbits and the influences affecting them. The scope includes theoretical considerations and the examination of orbital dynamics over time.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if all planets are moving away from the Sun and inquire about the extent of this movement.
  • Others argue that the dynamics of planetary orbits are influenced by multiple factors, including gravitational perturbations from other planets and the Sun's gradual loss of mass.
  • A participant provides tables showing the average radius of orbits and their rates of change over two historical time intervals, indicating that some planets are moving outward while others are moving inward.
  • There is a question raised about whether all planets in the solar system are affected by tidal effects similar to the Moon's movement away from Earth.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that tides are related to wave phenomena and suggests that without gravity, tides would not exist, questioning the relationship between the Sun's mass loss and energy compensation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the influence of tidal effects on planetary movement, with no consensus reached on whether all planets are moving away from the Sun or the extent of such movement.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of gravitational interactions, the need for further clarification on the role of tidal effects, and the potential impact of missing energy in the discussion of the Sun's mass loss.

Bjarne
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Are all the planets moving away from the Sun?
If so, how much?
 
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It's just not that simple. There are a lot of factors that influence a planet's orbit, including perturbation from other planets and the fact that the Sun is slowing losing mass.

Here's two tables showing the orbital elements and their rate of change for two time intervals: 1800 AD - 2050 AD and 3000 BC - 3000 AD The first column gives the average radius of the orbit and its rate of change. Note that some planets move out and some move in, and that can differ over the two time intervals.

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/p_elem_t1.txt

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/p_elem_t2.txt
 
Janus said:
It's just not that simple. There are a lot of factors that influence a planet's orbit, including perturbation from other planets and the fact that the Sun is slowing losing mass.

Here's two tables showing the orbital elements and their rate of change for two time intervals: 1800 AD - 2050 AD and 3000 BC - 3000 AD The first column gives the average radius of the orbit and its rate of change. Note that some planets move out and some move in, and that can differ over the two time intervals.

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/p_elem_t1.txt

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/p_elem_t2.txt

Thank you...
Do we know if all the planets (in our solar system) are affected by a tidal effects, so that the planets too, (seen from a overall perspective), also are moving away from the Sun, - so like our the Moon is moving away from the Earth, - due to tidal effect ?
 
tides comes and go, are they waves and therefor submitted to the laws of waves? if there where no gravity, then there would be no tides!
to Janus the sun is slowly loosing mass,but could it be to some exstend be compensated by the general(missing energy)?
 

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