Emptiness is at the heart of Everything

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of "emptiness" as it relates to consciousness and existence, drawing from Buddhist philosophy. Participants argue that dynamics, rather than physical forms, are fundamental to understanding existence, with references to the wave equation and its implications in quantum mechanics. The dialogue emphasizes that true understanding comes from experiencing conscious stillness, which reveals reality devoid of preconceived notions. The conversation also highlights the intersection of scientific inquiry and Buddhist thought, suggesting that ongoing research may validate these philosophical perspectives.

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  • Understanding of Buddhist concepts, particularly "emptiness."
  • Familiarity with quantum mechanics, specifically the wave equation.
  • Knowledge of consciousness studies and its implications in philosophy.
  • Basic principles of dynamics in physics.
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  • Research the Buddhist concept of "emptiness" and its application in meditation practices.
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Philosophers, physicists, meditation practitioners, and anyone interested in the intersection of science and spirituality, particularly those exploring the nature of consciousness and existence.

saltydog
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Someone here mentioned this idea, and I wish to present a possible explanation for review:

Earlier, I proposed an hypothesis that mind existed independently of the particular neural substrate we see it implemented in with man (and others); in this view only the dynamics are essential for a mind. Perhaps that is true with everything. Is this to mean a car exist independently of the physical implementation of the car? Maybe so. It's dynamics: movement and the chemical reactions which power it, are really at the heart of what it is to be a car and not the particular shape of it or even what it is made of. What of a rock? It's made of atoms, molecules and the forces which bind them. Precisely: the forces which bind them, and the forces which create the particles which they are constituted: I've heard it said, "the Wave Equation IS the electron". The dynamics of those forces, expressed somehow in another substrate might equally well exhibit "rock-ness". Perhaps everything can be so expressed.

From this perspective then, dynamics is at the heart of everything. But that dynamics is ephemeral and really not "physically" existing for the same reason "2-ness" has no physical existence but rather only that in which it is implemented. And so, emptiness is at the heart of everything because the one essential ingredient of existence is that which does not have a physical existence: dynamics.
 
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saltydog said:
Someone here mentioned this idea, and I wish to present a possible explanation for review:

Earlier, I proposed an hypothesis that mind existed independently of the particular neural substrate we see it implemented in with man (and others); in this view only the dynamics are essential for a mind. Perhaps that is true with everything. Is this to mean a car exist independently of the physical implementation of the car? Maybe so. It's dynamics: movement and the chemical reactions which power it, are really at the heart of what it is to be a car and not the particular shape of it or even what it is made of. What of a rock? It's made of atoms, molecules and the forces which bind them. Precisely: the forces which bind them, and the forces which create the particles which they are constituted: I've heard it said, "the Wave Equation IS the electron". The dynamics of those forces, expressed somehow in another substrate might equally well exhibit "rock-ness". Perhaps everything can be so expressed.

From this perspective then, dynamics is at the heart of everything. But that dynamics is ephemeral and really not "physically" existing for the same reason "2-ness" has no physical existence but rather only that in which it is implemented. And so, emptiness is at the heart of everything because the one essential ingredient of existence is that which does not have a physical existence: dynamics.

The concept of "emptiness" that Canute mentioned is derived primarily from the practice of meditation. It doesn't refer to anything in external reality, it refers to a consciousness that is actually "empty" of dynamics.

If you want to know where all your opinions, beliefs, memories, logic and reasoning abilities come from, then the dynamics of consciousness is the place to look.

But if you want to know where the experience of one's being or nature lies, it is found in conscious stillness (non-dynamics) or "emptiness."
 
Les Sleeth said:
The concept of "emptiness" that Canute mentioned is derived primarily from the practice of meditation. It doesn't refer to anything in external reality, it refers to a consciousness that is actually "empty" of dynamics.
"

Thanks, I'll look into Canute. The references I found on the internet (at least the first set) were based on Buddhism. I didn't quite understand the others so kind to attempt an explanation for me.

Wonderful . . . I don't know which Canute you refer to. Can you tell me so I can read about what he said about this phrase?

Thanks,
Salty
 
Last edited:
That'd be me. I recommend you check out those Buddhist references, since 'emptiness' is a Buddhist term with a quite precise meaning.
 
Canute said:
That'd be me. I recommend you check out those Buddhist references, since 'emptiness' is a Buddhist term with a quite precise meaning.

Oh wonderful . . .
Good thing I'm more successful with math but thank you. I shall give it some effort.
 
I tell you what, generally I don't mess with that Quantum Mechanics gang but I'm gonna' go in there and ask them what it means that the wave equation IS the electron. I think it means what I stated above. However, I suspect they'll talk QM and I won't be able to follow (kinda' like here). Anyway, if I get anything meaningfull I shall wish to post it here in an effort to present a more plausable thesis. Do they come here too?
 
saltydog said:
I tell you what, generally I don't mess with that Quantum Mechanics gang but I'm gonna' go in there and ask them what it means that the wave equation IS the electron. I think it means what I stated above. However, I suspect they'll talk QM and I won't be able to follow (kinda' like here). Anyway, if I get anything meaningfull I shall wish to post it here in an effort to present a more plausable thesis. Do they come here too?

Well, it didn't take long . . .

I don't think the wave equation is the electron. Does that mean my whole thesis isn't either? I ain't proud.

Salty
 
saltydog said:
Thanks, I'll look into Canute. The references I found on the internet (at least the first set) were based on Buddhism. I didn't quite understand the others so kind to attempt an explanation for me.

Wonderful . . . I don't know which Canute you refer to. Can you tell me so I can read about what he said about this phrase?

Our Canute is probalby chuckling at his new fame, but you and he are correct to attribute emptiness to the Buddha. I hate to sound like a broken record, but what's missing from our discussions is the dynamic experts' (i.e., scientists) understanding of the only thing in this universe which may be able to be made still -- consciousness.

You might have heard the famous Zen story of a king who knew all the Buddhist doctrines and so thought he was quite advanced spiritually. He visited a Zen master to show off, and as usual, the master invited the visitor in and offered him tea. When the king held his cup out, the Zen master filled it and then kept on pouring.

As the King watched tea dripping to the floor he asked, "Why do you keep pouring when my cup is already full?"

The Zen master answered, "That cup is like your mind. It is so full of concepts and ideas, there is no room to learn anything."

What's to learn? Well, it is the experience of complete stillness, which allows no concepts or doctrines. No one can explain that to another, one can only recommend it. One has to experience it to see the value of a consciousness "empty" of concepts, beliefs, opinions, likes and dislikes, etc. In that emptiness, as Canute suggested, everything is revealed as it is, without the coloring our opinionated mind adds to perception.
 
saltydog said:
Well, it didn't take long . . .

I don't think the wave equation is the electron. Does that mean my whole thesis isn't either? I ain't proud.

Salty

Lol. Welcome to the club. I've missed the mark several times with my speculations. At least you have the courage to try out ideas. :smile:
 
  • #10
Les Sleeth said:
The Zen master answered, "That cup is like your mind. It is so full of concepts and ideas, there is no room to learn anything."

Ah, yes! Thanks. I appreciate that wisdom and shall take it to heart.

Salty
 
  • #11
Les

Well said. The strange thing is that the scientific evidence supports the view of reality that we seem to share, down to the last letter. Space appear to be illusory or epiphenomenal, non-locality suggests that all points in space are equivalent, motion remains paradoxical, consciousness remains unexplained, time seems to be non-fundamental, matter seems to be ephemeral, metaphysical questions are still unanswerable and so on. I have a feeling that if we keep doing physics and mathematics for a bit longer we're going to end up with a scientific proof that the universe is just as Buddhists and so many others assert that it is. As time goes on (or seems to go on) the evidence appears to become ever more overwhelming.

By the way, I came across this wonderful site a while ago and it seemed right up your street - you probably know it but just in case -

thenazareneway.com
 
  • #13
Les

I see that my previous post was ambiguous. I didn't mean that we share the same view in every detail, for I don't know that. I meant that every detail of the evidence supports that view to the extent that we seem to share it, or something like that.
 
  • #14
Canute said:
Les

I see that my previous post was ambiguous. I didn't mean that we share the same view in every detail, for I don't know that. I meant that every detail of the evidence supports that view to the extent that we seem to share it, or something like that.

Don't worry, I understood what you meant. :smile:
 

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