Erosion of comet with Dark Matter.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential interaction between dark matter and comets, particularly focusing on the erosion of comets due to dark matter in the solar system. Participants explore the implications of dark matter's properties and its effects on comet behavior, including the energy sources for comet tails and the feasibility of detecting dark matter interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if dark matter exists in the solar system, it could contribute to the erosion of comets, which are primarily composed of water.
  • Others argue that dark matter does not interact with regular matter except through gravity, suggesting that any dark matter would pass through comets without causing erosion.
  • A participant questions the validity of measuring dark matter interactions based on collision frequency, suggesting that if such interactions were significant, comets would also collide with measurable dark matter.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the erosion from dark matter would be sufficient to affect a comet over billions of years.
  • Participants discuss the energy required for a comet to develop a tail, emphasizing that solar radiation and solar ion energy are the primary sources, especially when far from the sun.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the possibility of observing a comet with a tail far from the sun, indicating that if such a phenomenon were observed, it would likely not be due to dark matter interactions.
  • There is a mention of Saturn's moon Enceladus and its water vapor eruptions, with some suggesting electromagnetic phenomena as a cause, but others challenge the relevance of this example to the discussion on dark matter.
  • One participant notes that the solar system's high velocity relative to dark matter could increase collision frequency, but others point out that comets typically move at much lower speeds in their orbits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the role of dark matter in comet erosion, with some asserting that dark matter interactions are negligible, while others speculate on potential effects. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the implications of dark matter for comet behavior.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on assumptions about dark matter interactions and the unresolved nature of the energy sources required for comet tail formation. The discussion also highlights the complexities of measuring dark matter effects in practical scenarios.

daumphys
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If there is Dark Matter in the solar system, the erosion of comet with Dark Matter will be happen? A comet's main component is water, water has many nucleus per unit volume. and comet speed is very high. So. comet has high collision frequency with Dark Matter per time. Total energy for the erosion consists of the solar radiation, solar ion erosion and the erosion with Dark Matter. Is this concept wrong?
 
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daumphys said:
If there is Dark Matter in the solar system, the erosion of comet with Dark Matter will be happen? A comet's main component is water, water has many nucleus per unit volume. and comet speed is very high. So. comet has high collision frequency with Dark Matter per time. Total energy for the erosion consists of the solar radiation, solar ion erosion and the erosion with Dark Matter. Is this concept wrong?

Well, dark matter doesn't interact with regular matter, except via gravity. Any dark matter in the SS will pass right though the comet.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Well, dark matter doesn't interact with regular matter, except via gravity. Any dark matter in the SS will pass right though the comet.

How we think about detection it in the underground instrument? Might we believe this rule(time × measurable DM colliding frequency with the instrument )? If this rule is suitable, comet would also collide with measurable DM.
 
daumphys said:
How we think about detection it in the underground instrument? Might we believe this rule(time × measurable DM colliding frequency with the instrument )? If this rule is suitable, comet also collide with measurable DM.

For your detection idea to work, it would have to be enough erosion to take a measurement.

In this article, they mention an experiment with a whopping 67 collisions that might be candidates. Optimistically that's 67 molecules bumped out of place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Direct_detection_experiments

How would you know if a comet massing a few trillions of tons had collided with 67 dark matter particles?
 
Last edited:
daumphys said:
How we think about detection it in the underground instrument? Might we believe this rule(time × measurable DM colliding frequency with the instrument )? If this rule is suitable, comet also collide with measurable DM.

But this would not cause erosion on a significant enough scale to alter the comet even after billions of years.
 
Drakkith said:
But this would not cause erosion on a significant enough scale to alter the comet even after billions of years.

Have we never seen a comet which has a tail far away from the sun?
 
daumphys said:
Have we never seen a comet which has a tail far away from the sun?

What does that have to do with anything? What are you really asking?
 
phinds said:
What does that have to do with anything? What are you really asking?

To make tail, sufficient energy must be supplied for evaporation or sublimation. The source of the energy, we think, is solar radiation energy, solar ion energy . But, we are far away from the sun. The energy is very low.
 
daumphys said:
Have we never seen a comet which has a tail far away from the sun?

daumphys said:
To make tail, sufficient energy must be supplied for evaporation or sublimation. The source of the energy, we think, is solar radiation energy, solar ion energy . But, we are far away from the sun. The energy is very low.

Ah. You are asking if we have ever spotted a comet that is far from the sun and has a tail.

Probably not.

But, as you can judge by the other responses to this thread, if we did see such a thing, it sure wouldn't be caused by dark matter. 67 molecules does not a tail make.
 
  • #10
daumphys said:
Have we never seen a comet which has a tail far away from the sun?

I don't believe we have. And if we do see one, the tail will not be because of dark matter, it interacts far too weakly with normal matter for this to happen.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
I don't believe we have. And if we do see one, the tail will not be because of dark matter, it interacts far too weakly with normal matter for this to happen.

One of the fast moving icy objects is Saturn's moon Enceladus. I am curious , it's polar region water vapor eruption. Some researchers say "it's electromagnetic phenomena".
But it's eruption speed is too high. The water is erupted from the deep underground.
 
  • #12
daumphys said:
One of the fast moving icy objects is Saturn's moon Enceladus. I am curious , it's polar region water vapor eruption. Some researchers say "it's electromagnetic phenomena".
But it's eruption speed is too high. The water is erupted from the deep underground.

So?

You are ignoring everything we've been saying.

Dark matter does not interact with normal matter to any detectable degree beyond our best efforts under highly controlled and closely observed tests.

I ask again: do you think 67 molecules bumped out of place can possibly be the cause for any of the phenomena you are trying to explain?
 
  • #13
Sorry, I only think fast moving increases the collision frequency per time. But, standstill collision frequency is too low.
 
  • #14
daumphys said:
Sorry, I only think fast moving increases the collision frequency per time. But, standstill collision frequency is too low.

The solar system is moving in an orbit around the center of the galaxy at about 220 km/s. This is 10 times faster than Mars orbits the Sun, and since orbital velocity is directly related to distance from the Sun, the vast majority of the time a comet exists it is moving far below this speed. (The average orbital speed of Neptune is only 5.43 km/s, and many comets have part of their orbits beyond Neptune)
So we are always moving at a high velocity relative to any dark matter in the galaxy.
 

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