Event Horizon and the Mass of a Black Hole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of black holes, specifically focusing on the relationship between the mass of a collapsing star and the characteristics of the resulting black hole, including the event horizon and singularity. Participants explore theoretical aspects, visualizations, and the implications of mass on black hole formation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a visualization of a star with mass ##6M_ο## collapsing into a black hole, questioning the accuracy of their statements regarding the event horizon and critical density.
  • Another participant explains that the event horizon marks the boundary beyond which light cannot escape, and that a singularity forms from the collapsing star's matter.
  • Questions arise about the differences in event horizon radii for black holes formed from stars of different masses, with one participant suggesting that this implies different types of singularities.
  • Some participants assert that a more massive black hole will have a larger event horizon due to its greater gravitational influence.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption that all mass inside the event horizon reaches a true singularity, with reference to the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • Several participants express the complexity of General Relativity and the challenges of understanding the mathematics involved.
  • One participant shares resources for further reading to help clarify concepts related to black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of singularities and event horizons. While there is a general understanding that mass influences the size of the event horizon, the specifics of singularity formation and characteristics remain contested and unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about singularities and the mathematical frameworks necessary for a complete understanding of black holes. Some participants acknowledge their lack of familiarity with the required mathematics, which affects their ability to engage fully with the topic.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of physics, particularly those interested in black hole theory, General Relativity, and the implications of mass on gravitational phenomena.

Arman777
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I didnt understand a concept in black holes,So I ll try to make a vısualization to the process to explain my ideas properly.
Let's suppose we have a star with mass ##6M_ο##.We know that this star will turn to black hole,So Let's come to the end of the life of the star.It will explode as supernova, and the protons and electrons will make neutrons cause of the gravitational pressure.

Now in here , core (neutron) will reach a critical density which the star will turn the black hole,at this moment, the radius of this core will be equal to event horizon radius.And this radius value will determined by Schwarzschild radius.

Are these statements true ?
 
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jedishrfu said:
You can read more about it here:

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/nasa-knows/what-is-a-black-hole-58.html

and here:

https://www.space.com/37001-black-hole-born-from-collapsing-star-video-images.html

The event horizon is just a demarcation of where light can no longer escape the black hole. Once formed the collapsing star's matter collapses into a singularity with no discernable radius.
I looked the videos, second one is really interesting I was never heard such thing.

I understand that matter collapses and creates a singularity, then what's the difference between ##10M_ο## mass of star (A) and ##20M_ο## (B).Since both star A and B creates a black hole, they have singularity but their event horizon radius is different.How is that possible ? Is this means there's "different type of singularities" which affect the light in different way (Why event horizon radius is different , cause singularity is just singularity) ?
 
The event horizon is where light can no longer escape the clutches of the black hole so of course a more massive black hole will have a larger event horizon since its gravitational strength reaches farther out into the space around it.
 
jedishrfu said:
since its gravitational strength reaches farther out into the space around it.

Since the mass collapses into singularity why does the mass of the star matters ? Cause in any case all mass will collape so singularity,

Lets suppose we have an Earth and apple, they collapsed and formed black hole,I am saying they should have same radius cause they will form a singularity and singularities are same, but it is not, how ?
 
Mass doesn't vanish it just becomes a singularity. The mass tells space how to curve. The event horizon around the mass demarcates the point where light can no longer escape the black hole. The mass determines the size of the event horizon. Singularities are defined by the mass that created them and other properties such as charge and spin.

Even leaving General Relativity aside and using Newton's gravitation law you can see that the strength of gravity increases as the mass of one of the objects increases. It is the same in General Relativity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
 
jedishrfu said:
Mass doesn't vanish it just becomes a singularity. The mass tells space how to curve. The event horizon around the mass demarcates the point where light can no longer escape the black hole. The mass determines the size of the event horizon.

Even leaving General Relativity aside and using Newton's gravitation law you can see that the strength of gravity increases as the mass of one of the objects increases. It is the same in General Relativity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
It make sense that If it has a bigger mass the event horizon would be bigger but still a bit awkward to me...
 
The problem with physics is you have to go back to the math to really understand what's what. For General Relativity, the math is really hard hence laymen and journalists use flawed analogies like rubber sheets to describe what is happening leading to confusion.
 
jedishrfu said:
The problem with physics is you have to go back to the math to really understand what's what. For General Relativity, the math is really hard hence laymen and journalists use flawed analogies like rubber sheets to describe what is happening leading to confusion.
I totally agree with you.I am freshman physics student and GR is really hard to understand, the math is too complex etc.Without understanding them its hard for me to deal with such thing.Thank you for your help
 
  • #10
Arman777 said:
I looked the videos, second one is really interesting I was never heard such thing.

I understand that matter collapses and creates a singularity, then what's the difference between ##10M_ο## mass of star (A) and ##20M_ο## (B).Since both star A and B creates a black hole, they have singularity but their event horizon radius is different.How is that possible ? Is this means there's "different type of singularities" which affect the light in different way (Why event horizon radius is different , cause singularity is just singularity) ?

Due to the Pauli exclusion principle, it's premature to suggest that all mass inside the event horizon ever reaches a true state of "singularity" or anything approaching 'infinite density at a point". Be careful with that particular assumption. It's a pretty safe bet however that a larger mass object will have a larger event horizon.
 
  • #11
MichaelMo said:
Due to the Pauli exclusion principle, it's premature to suggest that all mass inside the event horizon ever reaches a true state of "singularity" or anything approaching 'infinite density at a point". Be careful with that particular assumption. It's a pretty safe bet however that a larger mass object will have a larger event horizon.
I see your point.I didnt and I cannot read the literature about this since I don't know the math and physics but from books about this issues or etc, I state that assumption,In simply way I guess we don't know how black holes form and hence what's there inside..Its pretty amazing.
 
  • #12
I also strangled for couple of months on this topic but then started from scratch once again to clear my concepts, bro kindly start from this article and then proceed to have a better understanding
http://www.astro.cardiff.ac.uk/research/gravity/tutorial/?page=5super

Also found sciencea2z.net very helpful

Regards
William Blake
<< Link removed by Mentors >>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #13
William Blake said:
I also strangled for couple of months on this topic but then started from scratch once again to clear my concepts, bro kindly start from this article and then proceed to have a better understanding
http://www.astro.cardiff.ac.uk/research/gravity/tutorial/?page=5super

Also found sciencea2z.net very helpful

Regards
William Blake
<< Link removed by Mentors >>
I didnt understand what should I get this from this article ?
 

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