Experimental Evidence for Conciousness as the Fifth Force.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "Consciousness as the Fifth Force," exploring the relationship between human observation and physical phenomena, particularly in the context of boiling water. Participants share personal anecdotes and experimental observations, questioning the influence of consciousness on time perception and physical processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recounts an experience where the kettle took longer to boil while being observed, suggesting a connection between consciousness and the boiling process.
  • Another participant proposes conducting a statistical study to measure boiling times, arguing that external factors like water purity and heater irregularities would be more significant than whether the kettle is being watched.
  • Several participants share their own experiments, reporting similar results where the kettle boiled immediately after leaving the room, raising questions about statistical anomalies.
  • Some participants humorously suggest that external factors, such as a mother or girlfriend, could be influencing the kettle's operation when not observed.
  • Discussion includes reflections on time perception, with participants noting that engaging in activities can distort one's sense of time, potentially affecting observations of boiling times.
  • One participant mentions a fictional character's experiments with boiling water, highlighting the contrast between subjective experience and objective measurement.
  • Another participant discusses the perception of time in relation to concentration, suggesting that consciousness might affect how time is experienced.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some supporting the idea that consciousness affects physical processes, while others challenge this notion, emphasizing the role of statistical factors and time perception. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential for unaccounted variables in personal experiments, such as the state of the kettle prior to boiling and the subjective nature of time perception. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the influence of consciousness on boiling times.

Disconnected
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So I know that "Conciousness as the Fifth Force" gets a lot of hate around here, but hear me out, this is legit.

So my mother always told me "A watched kettle never boils".

The other day, I found this out to be true. Every morning (okay, sometimes it's the afternoon) I wake up and put on the kettle for some tea or coffee. I always fill it up to just above the "min" line. After I put it on, I go pull some clothes on, which takes around a minute or two, and by the time I come back the kettle will have boiled. Well, the other day everything went kind of crazy, because I got my clothes on first since it was kinda nippy (I had slept with the window open because, ironically, it was too warm the night before).
So I was in the kitchen as the kettle boiled. So I sat and watched it, and waited.

And waited, and waited, and waited.

It took FOREVER to boil, I mean it must have been like at least 5 or 6 minutes, way longer then usual! So I got bored and I noticed there was some pasta sauce on my shirt so I went to change it and AS SOON AS I WALKED OUT OF THE ROOM (i.e. as soon as there was no longer an observer) - The kettle clicked. It had boiled, but only once I was no longer observing.

Combine this with that fancy wave function collapsing quantum mechanics stuff that no-one really understands and I really don't see how anyone can dispute the fact.

My conciousness stopped that kettle from boiling, there is no other explanation as to why it took SO LONG TO BOIL.
 
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You have to sneak up on it vewy vewy quietly.
 
...because I got my clothes on first since it was kinda nippy...
Isn't nippy the key word here? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nippy"
 
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Disconnected said:
So I know that "Conciousness as the Fifth Force" gets a lot of hate around here, but hear me out, this is legit.

Do a statistical study of how long an amount of water in a standard pot with standard heat input takes to boil, and report back with your findings. You'll probably get something close to a normal distribution, with the variance having to do with things like water purity, heater irregularities, and ambient temperature variance.

It won't have a correlation with one thing though- whether you're watching it or not (unless you're very close and modifying the heating properties).
 
Mech_Engineer said:
Do a statistical study of how long an amount of water in a standard pot with standard heat input takes to boil, and report back with your findings. You'll probably get something close to a normal distribution, with the variance having to do with things like water purity, heater irregularities, and ambient temperature variance.

It won't have a correlation with one thing though- whether you're watching it or not (unless you're very close and modifying the heating properties).

I repeated the expiment just now. I boiled it while watching it, and it took forever. Then I clicked it onto boil immediately (so the water purity etc. was exactly the same) and left the room immediately.

Once again it clicked AS SOON as I left the room!

This can't be a statistical anomoly.
 
Disconnected said:
I repeated the expiment just now. I boiled it while watching it, and it took forever.
Give or take.
 
This is clearly proof that your mother turns off the kettle when you leave the room and quickly back on when you come back. Damn mothers...always trying to prove their own advice.
 
ryan_m_b said:
This is clearly proof that your mother turns off the kettle when you leave the room and quickly back on when you come back. Damn mothers...always trying to prove their own advice.

I don't live with my mother anymore, so she couldn't have done it. My GF lives with me, but she doesn't do science so I don't think it was her.
 
Maybe the kettle as observing you?
 
  • #10
Lt. Commander Data: I have been testing the aphorism, "A watched pot never boils." I have boiled the same amount of water in this kettle sixty-two times. In some cases I have ignored the kettle; in others, I have watched it intently. In every instance, the water reaches its boiling point in precisely 51.7 seconds. It appears I am not capable of perceiving time any differently than my internal chronometer.
Commander William T. Riker: Why don't you turn it off?
Lt. Commander Data: Sir?
Commander William T. Riker: Data, people do not *have* internal chronometers. Why don't you see what happens if you turn yours off?
Lt. Commander Data: Thank you, sir. I will try that.
[Riker nods and gets up to leave, but stops]
Commander William T. Riker: Just don't be late for your shift!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708830/quotes"
 
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  • #11
Disconnected, your sense of "time" when you are engaged in an activity like getting dressed skews your perception, you think it's only 2 minutes when it's probably 5. You aren't controlling the kettle. If you actually compared the amount of time you were gone to the amount of time when you sit in the kitchen, you'd realize that the times are the same.

If not, then you should immediately contact www.randi.org and claim that million dollars.

Disconnected said:
I repeated the expiment just now. I boiled it while watching it, and it took forever. Then I clicked it onto boil immediately (so the water purity etc. was exactly the same) and left the room immediately.

Once again it clicked AS SOON as I left the room!

This can't be a statistical anomoly.

Please don't tell me that you actually tested it with an already heated kettle, of course it's going to immediately shut off.
 
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  • #12
Evo said:
Please don't tell me that you actually tested it with an already heated kettle, of course it's going to immediately shut off.

Huh, I guess I should have thought of that...


o:)
 
  • #13
Disconnected said:
Huh, I guess I should have thought of that...


o:)
That's ok, when I was 5, the power went out due to a hurricane and I was amazed that the toilets still flushed. I was sure that everything required electricty to function. :blushing:
 
  • #14
Evo said:
That's ok, when I was 5, the power went out due to a hurricane and I was amazed that the toilets still flushed. I was sure that everything required electricty to function. :blushing:

That's only because of the primitive toilets your country uses :-p this is how a proper 21st century toilet looks!

japan-toilet2.jpg
 
  • #15
Do you have a closeup of the control panel on that thing? :cool:
 
  • #16
What kind of pasta? And what color is the kettle?

Actually, am I the only one who notices this? Sometimes when I look at the clock or my watch, it seems like the second hand takes longer before moving, then subsequent ticks look more consistent. It's like my conscious sense of time is off when I'm concentrating on something a part of my brain is active on, a part less connected to the sense of time.
 
  • #17
Newai said:
What kind of pasta? And what color is the kettle?

Actually, am I the only one who notices this? Sometimes when I look at the clock or my watch, it seems like the second hand takes longer before moving, then subsequent ticks look more consistent. It's like my conscious sense of time is off when I'm concentrating on something a part of my brain is active on, a part less connected to the sense of time.

Yet more evidence! Even clocks are not immune to the decelerating and time dilating force of conciousness!

p.s. Am I spelling conciousness correctly? Rekonq doesn't have a spell checker and I haven't gotten around to installing FF yet.
 
  • #18
Disconnected said:
Yet more evidence! Even clocks are not immune to the decelerating and time dilating force of conciousness!

How about a digital timer and a cold pot boiled once a day for a year. Report back in 2012.

... but then of course you've got the problem of aging the pot, and heating from cosmic rays...

Disconnected said:
p.s. Am I spelling conciousness correctly? Rekonq doesn't have a spell checker and I haven't gotten around to installing FF yet.

LMGTFY: http://www.google.com/#q=define+con...88&bih=909&fp=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&cad=b"
 
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  • #19
I would just like to take this chance to say that I was just clowning around. I don't think that conciousness is a force, I know what time dilation is (though my exam results may argue that point) and I am NOT a crackpot!:smile:
Sorry for inadvertently trolling, dudebrohamskis.

Thanks for unlocking and letting me clear my name.:!)
 
  • #20
So, now it's time to close.
 

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