Explaining the size of a water molecule

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the size of a water molecule and how to relate it to the size of a human body through a recursive analogy involving ants. Participants explore calculations and ratios to determine how many levels of smaller ants would be needed to reach the size of a water molecule, which is specified as 2.75E-07 mm in diameter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving an ant and a human to illustrate the size difference, seeking guidance on calculations.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical approach to determine the size of successive levels of ants, using the ratio of the ant's size to the human's height.
  • It is noted that the nth level ant can be expressed as a function of the original ant size and human height, leading to a formula that can be solved for n.
  • Some participants mention that the fourth level ant is too large and the fifth level ant is too small when compared to the size of a water molecule.
  • There are suggestions that using a smaller human or ant could yield different approximations for the levels of ants needed to match the size of a water molecule.
  • Intermediate sizes of the second, third, and fourth level ants are compared to common objects like human hair and bacteria, as well as a complex molecule size.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical approach to the problem, but there are multiple competing views regarding the size of ants and humans that could affect the calculations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact number of levels needed to reach the size of a water molecule.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the calculations and the implications of using different sizes for ants and humans, which may affect the outcome. There is also a lack of consensus on the most appropriate sizes to use for accurate comparisons.

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I am a longtime producer and host of a children's radio show on our local public radio station.
It's springtime and the rivers are running and I'm working up a little bit of shtick about water for the show. Water molecules are among the smallest, and one goal of the piece is to relate the size of a human body to that of a water molecule in a tangible and accessible fashion.

So we imagine an ant that is 1/2” (12.7 mm) long crawling on the leg of a person 5’6” (1676 mm) tall. Fortunately it is a friendly, vegetarian ant and doesn’t bite. Then we imagine that this ant has a much smaller ant crawling on its leg and, further, that this tiny critter has an even tinier critter on its leg and so forth until we get down to a extremely small critter that is the size of a water molecule.

The question is how many times we would need to repeat that recursive process until we reach the size of a molecule given that a water molecule is 2.75E-07 mm (0.000000275 mm) in diameter.

I have made numerous attempts at various calculations and come up with some bizarre answers. My latest equation has "x" appear as a power of a constant, but I am very rusty at dealing at solving that sort of thing.

First, I would very much appreciate some guidance in getting to the right answer.
Secondly, if the question as posed is not clear or could be better phrased, I would be glad to hear suggestions.

Thanks very much,
Don in Colorado
 
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That is a big ant.
The ant to human ratio is 12.7/1676 = 0.00758. The ant on the ant (second level ant) is 12.7/1676 times the length of the ant, or 12.7/1676 * 12.7mm which is also equal to ##\frac{12.7}{1676} \cdot \frac{12.7}{1676} \cdot 1676mm## starting at the human. And so on. The third level ant then has a size of ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^3 \cdot 1676mm## The nth level ant has ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^n \cdot 1676mm##. Setting that equal to the size of the water molecule: ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^n \cdot 1676mm = 2.75\cdot10^{-07} mm##. While you can solve it step by step (divide by 1676 mm, take the logarithm on both sides, simplify), the children won't see these steps anyway. You can just plug it into an online calculator, telling you that n=4.6. The fourth level ant is too big, the fifth level ant is too small.

If you replace the 1676 mm human by a child, the fifth level ant becomes a better approximation (with a perfect match somewhere around 1050 mm). If you use a smaller ant, the fourth level ant becomes a better approximation (with a perfect match at 6 mm).
 
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mfb said:
That is a big ant.
The ant to human ratio is 12.7/1676 = 0.00758. The ant on the ant (second level ant) is 12.7/1676 times the length of the ant, or 12.7/1676 * 12.7mm which is also equal to ##\frac{12.7}{1676} \cdot \frac{12.7}{1676} \cdot 1676mm## starting at the human. And so on. The third level ant then has a size of ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^3 \cdot 1676mm## The nth level ant has ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^n \cdot 1676mm##. Setting that equal to the size of the water molecule: ##\left( \frac{12.7}{1676} \right)^n \cdot 1676mm = 2.75\cdot10^{-07} mm##. While you can solve it step by step (divide by 1676 mm, take the logarithm on both sides, simplify), the children won't see these steps anyway. You can just plug it into an online calculator, telling you that n=4.6. The fourth level ant is too big, the fifth level ant is too small.

If you replace the 1676 mm human by a child, the fifth level ant becomes a better approximation (with a perfect match somewhere around 1050 mm). If you use a smaller ant, the fourth level ant becomes a better approximation (with a perfect match at 6 mm).

Ah, I very much appreciate your walking me through this. I could not get a handle on it. Regards.
 
By the way, if you want to make intermediate steps, with the original numbers:
The second level ant is as large as a human hair is wide. The third level ant is a bit smaller than a typical bacterium. The fourth level ant is a complex molecule, 20 times the size of the hydrogen molecule.
 
mfb said:
By the way, if you want to make intermediate steps, with the original numbers:
The second level ant is as large as a human hair is wide. The third level ant is a bit smaller than a typical bacterium. The fourth level ant is a complex molecule, 20 times the size of the hydrogen molecule.
Great, that is useful. And apparently ants range in size up to 52 mm or about 2 inches. That would be an encounter.
 

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