Explanation of all "its linearly independent derivatives"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the method of undetermined coefficients in solving non-homogeneous second order linear differential equations with constant coefficients, specifically focusing on the identification of linearly independent derivatives of a function involved in the solution process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a specific example involving the equation \(y'' + 4y = x \sin 2x\) and discusses the method of undetermined coefficients, particularly how to find a particular solution \(y_p\).
  • There is a query about what constitutes the linearly independent derivatives of the function \(f(x) = x^2 e^{(2x) i}\), with calculations for \(f'(x)\), \(f''(x)\), and \(f'''(x)\) provided.
  • Another participant asserts that since the original ODE is second order, it is unnecessary to differentiate beyond \(f''(x)\) and claims that \(f\), \(f'\), and \(f''\) are linearly independent.
  • There is a suggestion that the term "differentiating our candy" may be a typo, indicating a lack of clarity in the original post.
  • A later post introduces an alternative approach to the problem, proposing a particular solution involving trigonometric functions, but does not resolve the earlier discussion about linear independence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of finding higher derivatives and the interpretation of linear independence in this context. No consensus is reached regarding the best approach to identifying linearly independent derivatives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of the functions involved and the conditions under which linear independence is determined. There are unresolved questions about the appropriateness of the proposed methods and the definitions used.

Hall
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I'm studying Differential Equations from Tenenbaum's, and currently going through non-homogeneous second order linear differential equations with constant coefficients. Method of Undetermined Coefficients is the concerned topic here. I will put forth my doubt through an example. Let's say we are asked to solve
$$
\begin{align*}
y'' + 4y = x \sin 2x\\
\textrm{complexifying the equation} \\
\tilde{y''} + 4 \tilde{y} = x e^{(2x) i} \\
\end{align*}
$$
If we see the associated homogeneous differential equation
$$
\begin{align*}
y'' + 4y = 0 \\
\textrm{Characteristic equation} \\
m^2 + 4 = 0 \\
m = \pm 2i \\
y_c = c e^{(2i) x} \\
\end{align*}
$$

Now, Tenenbaum writes,
Case 2. ##Q(x)## [the RHS of a non-homogeneous differential equation] contains a term which, ignoring constant coefficients, is ##x^k## times a term ##u(x)## of ##y_c##, where ##k## is zero or a positive integer. In this case a particular solution ##y_p## of [non-homogeneous differential equattion] will be a linear combination of ##x^{k+1} u(x)## and all its linearly independent derivatives.
So, in our case ##u(x) = e^{(2x) i}## and ##k=1##; ##y_p## should be a linear combination of ##x^2 e^{(2i) x}## and its linearly independent derivatives. What are its linearly independent derivatives? A set is called independent if none of the members can be obtained by combining the rest of them linearly. Let's begin differentiating our candy
$$
\begin{align*}
f(x) = x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'(x) = 2x e^{(2x) i } + 2i x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f''(x) = 2 e^{(2x) i } + 8i x e^{(2x) i }-4 x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'''(x) = 12i e^{(2x) i } - 24 x e^{(2x) i } - 8i x e^{(2x) i }\\
\end{align*}
$$
Well, it seems to me that ##f'''(x)## can be expressed as linear combination of ##f"(x)## and ##f'(x)## (but I'm not sure. So, according to Tenenbaum, the solution should like
$$
y_p = A x^2 e^{(2x) i } + 2Bx e^{(2x) i } + 2B i x^2 e^{(2x) i } + 2C e^{(2x) i } + 8C i x e^{(2x) i } - 4C x^2 e^{(2x) i }
$$
?
I'm not sure if I'm right, but this task of finding linearly independent derivatives doesn't seem a very good alternative to solving the actual DE. Can you please say something on this **linear independent derivatives**?
 
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Hall said:
Let's begin differentiating our candy
$$
\begin{align*}
f(x) = x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'(x) = 2x e^{(2x) i } + 2i x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f''(x) = 2 e^{(2x) i } + 8i x e^{(2x) i }-4 x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'''(x) = 12i e^{(2x) i } - 24 x e^{(2x) i } - 8i x e^{(2x) i }\\
\end{align*}
$$
Well, it seems to me that ##f'''(x)## can be expressed as linear combination of ##f"(x)## and ##f'(x)## (but I'm not sure.
Your original ODE is second order, so you don't need to go beyond f''(x). The functions f, f', and f'' are linearly independent.

Also, what do you mean by "differentiating our candy"? Is that a typo?
 
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Mark44 said:
Your original ODE is second order, so you don't need to go beyond f''(x). The functions f, f', and f'' are linearly independent.

Also, what do you mean by "differentiating our candy"? Is that a typo?
He learnt Pdes in the street, Mark44, unlike us ;).
 
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Likes   Reactions: chwala
Hall said:
I'm studying Differential Equations from Tenenbaum's, and currently going through non-homogeneous second order linear differential equations with constant coefficients. Method of Undetermined Coefficients is the concerned topic here. I will put forth my doubt through an example. Let's say we are asked to solve
$$
\begin{align*}
y'' + 4y = x \sin 2x\\
\textrm{complexifying the equation} \\
\tilde{y''} + 4 \tilde{y} = x e^{(2x) i} \\
\end{align*}
$$
If we see the associated homogeneous differential equation
$$
\begin{align*}
y'' + 4y = 0 \\
\textrm{Characteristic equation} \\
m^2 + 4 = 0 \\
m = \pm 2i \\
y_c = c e^{(2i) x} \\
\end{align*}
$$

Now, Tenenbaum writes,

So, in our case ##u(x) = e^{(2x) i}## and ##k=1##; ##y_p## should be a linear combination of ##x^2 e^{(2i) x}## and its linearly independent derivatives. What are its linearly independent derivatives? A set is called independent if none of the members can be obtained by combining the rest of them linearly. Let's begin differentiating our candy
$$
\begin{align*}
f(x) = x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'(x) = 2x e^{(2x) i } + 2i x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f''(x) = 2 e^{(2x) i } + 8i x e^{(2x) i }-4 x^2 e^{(2x) i } \\
f'''(x) = 12i e^{(2x) i } - 24 x e^{(2x) i } - 8i x e^{(2x) i }\\
\end{align*}
$$
Well, it seems to me that ##f'''(x)## can be expressed as linear combination of ##f"(x)## and ##f'(x)## (but I'm not sure. So, according to Tenenbaum, the solution should like
$$
y_p = A x^2 e^{(2x) i } + 2Bx e^{(2x) i } + 2B i x^2 e^{(2x) i } + 2C e^{(2x) i } + 8C i x e^{(2x) i } - 4C x^2 e^{(2x) i }
$$
?
I'm not sure if I'm right, but this task of finding linearly independent derivatives doesn't seem a very good alternative to solving the actual DE. Can you please say something on this **linear independent derivatives**?

Kindly your insight on this;

I think for the homogenous part we shall have;

##y_c (x)= A\cos 2x +B\sin 2x##

then for the inhomogenous part; we can let
##y_p(x)= C[x \sin 2x]##
##y^{'}_p(x)= C[ \sin 2x+2x\cos 2x]##
##y^{''}_p(x)= C[2\cos2x+2\cos2x-4\sin2x]## ...

##C[2\cos2x+2\cos2x-4\sin2x]+4C[ \sin 2x+2x\cos 2x]=[x \sin 2x]##
##C[4\cos2x-4\sin2x]+4C[ \sin 2x+2x\cos 2x]=[x \sin 2x]##
...

then solving can take normal course with given two boundary conditions...
 
Last edited:

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