Explanations about Kardashev type 1 civilizations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Kardashev scale, specifically focusing on type I, II, and III civilizations. Participants explore the implications of each type, the energy harnessing capabilities, and the challenges associated with advancing from one type to another. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, organizational challenges, and interpretations of energy access.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that transitioning from a type II to a type III civilization may not require a significant technological leap, suggesting it could be a matter of replication of existing technologies like Dyson spheres.
  • Others argue that the transition involves substantial organizational challenges, particularly in coordinating efforts across vast distances in the galaxy, which would require long-term planning and local problem-solving.
  • A participant raises the idea that type III civilizations may focus on energy extraction methods, such as utilizing supermassive black holes through processes like the Penrose process.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of a type I civilization, with questions about what it means to access all energy available on a planet, including resources like uranium and deuterium.
  • Some participants clarify that the Kardashev scale is relative and not meant to be specific, emphasizing that the energy output of a type I civilization is significantly lower than that of a type II civilization.
  • References to external sources, including Wikipedia, are made to support interpretations of the Kardashev scale and its implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the Kardashev scale, with no clear consensus on the implications of transitioning between civilization types or the specific definitions of energy access. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations and hypotheses.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of what constitutes "accessing all energy" and the assumptions underlying the Kardashev scale's definitions. The discussion also reflects differing perspectives on the technological and organizational challenges involved in advancing civilization types.

KingGambit
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TL;DR
Needs explanation about Kardashev I civilization.
[Mentor Note: Two threads on the same basic subject have been merged into this one thread.]

Dear PF Forum,

It's been a long time since I logged in PF, and I hope everybody is in a good health.
Recently I'd like to know what is Kardashev scale type II and III

I mean,
Type 1: All energy from the planet
Type 2: All energy from the sun
Type 3: All energy from the galaxy

So once a civilization reaches type 2, they Dyson sphere their own sun. And I think it just a matter of time that they can copy paste their Dyson sphere too all the stars in their galaxy, right? I mean it doesn't need a technological leap from type 2 to type 3.
What do you think?

Thanks for your attention.
 
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KingGambit said:
So once a civilization reaches type 2, they Dyson sphere their own sun. And I think it just a matter of time that they can copy paste their Dyson sphere too all the stars in their galaxy, right? I mean it doesn't need a technological leap from type 2 to type 3.
What do you think?
I agree, maybe it is worth checking what Kardashev and others have said about it. What I can imagine is that it is however an organizational leap. If there is no magical wormhole to jump from a place to another, then you have to held together planetary conglomerates that are kiloparsecs away. This means that any conjoint plans have to be organized millenia in advance. Any disturbance to the plan has to fixed locally at the level of solar systems as there is no way to reach a place fast enough, and the concept of what is happening "now" is completely relativistic.
 
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However if type 3 is not about making a galatic civilization but about getting more energy, then there are still some challenges. You could imagine extracting energy from the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy through the Penrose process.
 
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Dear PF Forum,

I'm interested with this Kardashev thing.
In Kardashev type I civilization, per Wiki entry Kardashev scale

"A Type I civilization is able to access all the energy available on its planet and store it for consumption. Hypothetically, it should also be able to control natural events such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc."

What does access all the energy availabe on its planet mean?
Do we have access to all uranium, thorium, deuterium in the ocean, litium for tritium breeding, every fossil fuel, etc?

And what the significant of this? I mean, surely when we already achieve fusion technology, we do have access to all deuterium in the ocean, right?

Or Kardashev 1 is determined by Carl Sagan formula K = (log 10 (P) - 6)/10 which is 1016 watt.

Thanks for your attention.
 
It is not meant to be specific; it is more a relative thing - at an order of magnitude scale.

On the scale of a K2 civilization, the energy output of a K1 system is chump change.

[ UPDATE ]
"A Type I civilization is usually defined as one that can harness all the energy that reaches its home planet from its parent star (for Earth, this value is about 2×1017 watts)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Type_I

Thanks, @pbuk !
 
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DaveC426913 said:
It is not meant to be specific; it is more a relative thing - at an order of magnitude scale.

On the scale of a K2 civilization, the energy output of a K1 system is chump change.

[ UPDATE ]
"A Type I civilization is usually defined as one that can harness all the energy that reaches its home planet from its parent star (for Earth, this value is about 2×1017 watts)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Type_I

Thanks, @pbuk !
Ahh, this link is more elaborated. Thanks.
 

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