Extending a transformation from a curve to the whole space

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around extending a transformation from a deforming curve in three-dimensional space to the entire surrounding space, aiming for a continuous transformation that avoids overlaps. The context includes theoretical exploration and potential applications in solving tanglement puzzles involving flexible loops of string.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method to extend the deformation of a curve, \vec{f}(s,t), to a transformation \vec{g}(\vec{x},t) for the entire space, emphasizing the need for continuity and non-overlapping conditions.
  • Another participant notes that there are infinitely many ways to achieve such transformations and asks for additional restrictions to make the problem unique.
  • A participant expresses interest in constructing a specific transformation rather than proving its existence, mentioning challenges with overlapping in their initial ideas involving linear interpolation and distance weighting.
  • One suggestion involves restricting the curves to straight line segments and using a cubic lattice of grid points, proposing to average the positions of neighboring grid points as a potential solution.
  • Another participant suggests a more general approach where the transformation is defined by the vector Laplace equation, using the curve as a boundary condition, indicating a need to review numerical methods for calculating Green's functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there are infinitely many possible transformations and that additional restrictions may be necessary for uniqueness. However, the specific methods and approaches to achieve the transformation remain contested and unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the choice of curve representation (e.g., straight line segments) and the unresolved nature of the proposed methods, particularly regarding the handling of overlaps and the numerical calculation of Green's functions.

maze
Messages
661
Reaction score
4
Supposing I have a curve, \vec{f}\left(s,t\right) that lives in \Re^{3} and is deforming over time but never intersecting itself (s is the curve parameter and t is time). I would like to extend the deformation of the curve to the entire space around the curve, creating a transformation of the whole space \vec{g}\left(\vec{x},t\right) that is continuous and doesn't overlap itself.

It would be fine to restrict the curve to a series of connected straight line segments, if that would make it easier.

If I can construct such a function, g, I believe I can use it to create a very general method of solving "tanglement puzzles", where the object is to remove a flexible loop of string from a metal contraption.

Here are some pictures that describe what I am taking about.
Here is the function I start with:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1968/pathcurvingsmww1.png

and here is the function I want to construct:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7487/pathcurvingcoordssmcz2.png

And here are a couple examples of "remove the string" tanglement puzzles:
xtripwire_l.jpg

http://www.puzzles.ca/puzzle_data_3/xastroknot_l.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
There are an infinite number of ways of doing that. What additional restrictions do you want to add in order to make that problem unique?
 
Yes definitely, there are infinitely many legit possibilities for such transformations. Any will do, so long as I can construct it for any curve. I'm interested in a construction, not an existence proof! The simpler or easier to compute, the better.

I was running through some simple ideas such as linear interpolation with tetrahedra, distance weighting, and so forth, but my constructions keep having problems with overlapping for certain curves.
 
Ahh, I believe I may have a way to do this.

Restrict the curves in question to those that consist of straight line segments, as that is acceptable for my purposes. Next create a cubic lattice of gridpoints in the space. Then, using the curve and a bounding box as boundary conditions, force each grid point position to be the average of the position of all it's neighbors.

I think this should work, though I am not 100% sure and will need to prove it...
 
Last edited:
Or more generally where the curve isn't straight lines, g is given by the vector laplace equation in each coordinate, using the transform on the curve, f, as a boundary condition. Now I will need to review how to calculate greens functions numerically...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K