Exterminate a spider in the bathroom

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AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on arachnophobia, the fear of spiders, which affects a significant portion of the global population. Participants explore the origins of this fear, questioning whether it is innate or learned. Some suggest that a historical association between spiders and danger may have led to a genetic predisposition for fear, while others argue that the fear is culturally influenced, with varying perceptions of spiders across different societies. Evidence indicates that most spiders are not harmful to humans, yet the fear persists, possibly due to evolutionary factors where those who were cautious around potentially dangerous creatures had better survival rates. The conversation also distinguishes between normal fear and phobia, emphasizing that phobias are irrational and can stem from learned behaviors or traumatic experiences. Cultural differences in spider perception are highlighted, with some societies viewing spiders positively, further complicating the understanding of arachnophobia. Overall, the discussion reflects on the complexity of fear, suggesting that both genetic and environmental factors play a role in the development of phobias.
  • #51
Occam's Razor is the law of parsimony, Paul.
 
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  • #52
lol, my mistake. It was earlier today when I just woke up and posted that. Blame drousiness. :p
 
  • #53
Paul Wilson said:
lol, my mistake. It was earlier today when I just woke up and posted that. Blame drousiness. :p
Well, that sounds like it's probably the simplest explanation.
 
  • #54
gerben said:
Family factors:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s914237.htm

This is a line from the mentioned article:
"...Interestingly, fear conditioning is more easily acquired and less readily extinguished with evolutionarily fear-relevant (snakes and spiders) than fear-irrelevant (circles and triangles) stimuli."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12860774

From an earlier article:
"...CONCLUSIONS: Panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, phobias, and OCD all have significant familial aggregation..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&list_uids=11578982&dopt=Abstract
Gerben, what these are saying is that there may be a genetic predisposition for people to be more prone to developing fears, phobias, anxiety, etc... I would agree with that. They are not saying that people can have a genetic fear specifically of a certain type of creature. They aren't saying people can be born able to recognize spiders.

gerben said:
You seem to favor nurture as the prime cause, my first problem with that view is that I do not see why people would learn to fear spiders (Why do we not learn to fear other harmless things)
Some spiders can be potentially lethal, or at least do significant harm. There are very few spiders that fall into this category however. Remember though, phobias are not based upon "normal" or "rational" fears. Most people that are afraid of spiders aren't afraid of the harm they will do, they are more just grossed out by them.
 
  • #55
Evo said:
Gerben, what these are saying is that there may be a genetic predisposition for people to be more prone to developing fears, phobias, anxiety, etc... I would agree with that. They are not saying that people can have a genetic fear specifically of a certain type of creature. They aren't saying people can be born able to recognize spiders.
I do not think people can be born able to recognize spiders, the visual and cognitive abilities would not be developed enough and babies do not fear them, but the fear develops. Is this because of innate genetic factors or because of experience?

I fully agree that there is no definite answer to this question and that the links are not offering an answer to our discussion (I posted those links because arildno finds it important that there should be some aggregation in families. I do not find that crucial, but it can nonetheless support the idea.) I am just explaining my current believes on this issue and I would be pleased to see some good arguments that may change them. To me Davey’s arguments (post #15) of the fear being the result from an association between spiders and illness raises the question “why spiders, and not something else”. I would think, probably because we have this inborn suspicion against spiders. I do not refute the historical data indicating that the two were associated, but I do not think that that is the reason for the fear they arouse in people today. I think that people in the tenth century also feared spiders and therefore associated them with the, at that time, unexplainable illnesses.

Evo said:
Some spiders can be potentially lethal, or at least do significant harm. There are very few spiders that fall into this category however. Remember though, phobias are not based upon "normal" or "rational" fears. Most people that are afraid of spiders aren't afraid of the harm they will do, they are more just grossed out by them.
Yes, that was one of my points: people fear them and yet they are harmless (mostly). So it seems strange that you would learn this (as I said in post #49: "Why do we not learn to fear other harmless things"). People are just grossed out by them, without knowing why. Perhaps they do not know why because it is not something they have learned, but something they are born with. Just like you do not know why you have brown eyes. In both cases there is nothing in your memory that you can point to and say: “that is what has done it”.

People are never phobic of cars or knives not even after they have been harmed by one in an accident. But a phobia for spiders is quite common, so I think this is somehow built into humans, not in every specimen but in the species. It may be thinning out slowly, but it is still there.
 
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  • #56
I did read an article in some Illustrated Sciences magazine in Norway, and it did present a theory about some specific area in the brain that identifies potentially dangerous things, and makes you jumpy.

I myself don't have any problems with spiders. On the contrary, I enjoy having them in my house so they can eat flies and mosquitos, and I find it interesting having them crawl on my hands so I can get a good look at them. I would never think about hurting a domestic spider, and if they are in the way I always try to put them on a shelf or something. I once even had one fall in my dinner plate, which I first I found pretty amusing (it was a big sucker too), but I got a bit worried with all the sauce it got on itself. I rescued it and put it in some corner of the house.

Snakes tend to make me a bit hesitant until I can identify the species (only viper is dangerous in Norway) and then I always want to have a closer look.

In general I pay both great respect and interest in basically all little critters except flies and mosquitos.

But I have on phobia, though: emetophobia, fear of vomit. Whenever someone barfs (which tends to happen when people of my age gets drunk at parties) I just freak out and run away.

My mom, who's teaching psychology at a college in Norway, can tell me humans have a built-in fear of potentially unhygienic, or dangerous situations, but our best judgment usually overrides the basic instinct. In the few cases it doesn't we end up developing some phobia.
 

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