External direct product- homomorphism

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mehtamonica
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Direct product Product
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the homomorphism between the group U(st) and the external direct product of U(s) and U(t), as stated in a theorem from Gallian's Contemporary Abstract Algebra. Participants are exploring the definition of a map and its properties, particularly focusing on whether the proposed map is indeed a homomorphism.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines a map f from U(st) to U(s) (+) U(t) and attempts to show it is a homomorphism.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial reasoning but suggests that certain notations used are unclear.
  • Some participants discuss the interpretation of the notation x mod y and its implications in the context of homomorphisms.
  • A participant presents a specific example with values s=3, t=5, a=7, and b=8, questioning the validity of their calculations regarding the homomorphism.
  • There is a correction regarding the calculation of 7x8 mod 15, with multiple participants pointing out the error in the computation.
  • One participant concludes that their initial reasoning about the homomorphism holds true after addressing the correction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity of notation and the correctness of calculations. While some agree with the initial approach to defining the homomorphism, others challenge specific steps and calculations, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall validity of the homomorphism.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the clarity of notation and the correctness of specific calculations, which may affect the understanding of the homomorphism's properties.

mehtamonica
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Theorem 8.3 in Gallian's Contemp. Abst Alg
says with (s, t) = 1 the group U(st) is isomorphic
to the external direct product of U(s) and U(t)
that is, to U(s) (+) U(t)

U(n) is the group of positive
integers less than n and relatively prime to n with the
group operation multiplication mod n

Defining a map f from U(st) -> U(s)(+) U(t) as f : x -> (x mod s, x mod t)

I am confused on how to proceed to show that f is HOMOMORPHISM. Please see my working below...

LET a, b belong to U( st) then

f ( a x b mod st )=f ( ab mod st)
= ( ( ab mod st ) mod s , ( ab mod st ) mod t))

Now, since ab mod st = ab mod s = ab mod t and (ab mod s ) mod s = ab mod s

= ( ab mod s, ab mod t )
= ( a mods, a mod t) (b mod s , b mod t)
= f ( a ) f (b)
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
That seems correct.

Note however that notations like ( ab mod st ) mod s don't make much sense.
You can write directly f ( ab mod st) = ( ab mod s , ab mod t)
 
micromass said:
Note however that notations like ( ab mod st ) mod s don't make much sense.
Actually, it is not unusual to use
x mod y​
to refer to the function that selects a canonical representative of the equivalence class of x modulo y. (commonly the one in the interval [0, y-1])

Also, I don't think it especially surprising to use the postfix operator "- mod f" to refer to the homomorphism G --> G/f. (where G is some appropriate sort of algebraic structure like Abelian group or Ring)
 
micromass said:
That seems correct.

Note however that notations like ( ab mod st ) mod s don't make much sense.
You can write directly f ( ab mod st) = ( ab mod s , ab mod t)

Why does my idea fail if take this example

let s= 3 , t = 5. then a = 7 , b= 8 belong to U (st)= U(15)

f ( 7 x 8 mod 15) = ( ( 7 x 8 mod 15 )mod 5, (7 x 8 mod 15) mod 3) = (4, 0).

However , if I write

f ( 7 x 8 mod 15) = ( 56 mod 5, 56 mod 3) = (1, 2).

which is equal to

f ( 7) f (8) = ( 7 mod 5, 7 mod 3)( 8 mod 5, 8 mod 3)

= (2, 1) ( 3, 2)
= ( 1,2)
 
Last edited:
mehtamonica said:
f ( 7 x 8 mod 15) = ( ( 7 x 8 mod 15 )mod 5, (7 x 8 mod 15) mod 3) = (4, 0).

I don't see how you got this...
 
micromass said:
I don't see how you got this...

f ( 7 x 8 mod 15) = ( ( 7 x 8 mod 15 )mod 5, (7 x 8 mod 15) mod 3)
= ( 9 mod 5 , 9 mo d 3)
= ( 4, 0)
 
7x8=11 mod 15, not 9...
 
micromass said:
7x8=11 mod 15, not 9...

Thanks, then it seems my initial reasoning was correct, that is,


( ( ab mod st ) mod s , ( ab mod st ) mod t)) = ( ab mod s, ab mod t ).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
7K