Find an example of a linear functional with some properties

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an example of a linear functional with specific properties, particularly in the context of functional analysis and dual spaces. Participants explore the implications of the Hahn-Banach theorem and the distinctions between continuous and algebraic duals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants consider various forms of linear functionals and their properties, questioning the conditions under which they attain certain values. There is discussion about the implications of the Hahn-Banach theorem and the nature of continuous versus discontinuous duals. Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and properties involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants raising questions and exploring different interpretations of the problem. Some have offered insights regarding the conditions for linear functionals, while others are seeking clarification on specific concepts and their implications.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of assumptions regarding the nature of the spaces involved, particularly concerning closed subspaces and the unit ball. Participants also note the potential complexity introduced by distinguishing between continuous and algebraic duals.

docnet
Messages
796
Reaction score
486
Homework Statement
Let ##X## be a Banach space and ##X^\ast## its dual space. Find an ##f\in X^\ast## such that $$\sup_{||x||\leq 1}||f||=1$$ and ##f(x)\neq 1## whenever ##||x||=1##.
Relevant Equations
.
I considered ##X=\mathbb{R}^n## and quickly realized any linear functional like ##f=a_1x_1+\cdots a_nx_n## would attain a maximum on the boundary. I regret to say that my knowledge of topology is still very limited, and did a lot of experimenting with a pen and paper without fruitful results. And I did some researching to find a possible example.

Would ##X=l^1## and ##f=(0.9, 0.99, 0.999, \cdots ) \in l^\infty## work? It says that no element in ##X## would give ##f(x) = \sum_i f_i x_i = 1##, and ##||f||=1## in the sup norm. My understanding is still hazy and isn't quite clear to me what about makes this all work, and obviously I have a lot of new learning to do.

Thank you (excited to learn another challenging math topic).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nuuskur
Physics news on Phys.org
This is a corollary of Hahn-Banach (cf. Prop 6.6, for example). We can fix a proper closed subspace ##X_0\subseteq X##, then there exists ##x^*## with norm ##1## such that it vanishes on ##X_0##. So if ##S_X\subseteq X_0##, the requirement of ##x^*(x)\neq 1## is met for all ##x\in S_X##.

Your condition should read
<br /> \sup _{\|x\|\leqslant 1} \|f(x)\| = 1. \quad (\text{or } |f(x)|)<br />
The LHS expression is precisely the norm of ##f## and it suffices to consider the supremum over the unit sphere.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: WWGD and docnet
nuuskur said:
This is a corollary of Hahn-Banach (cf. Prop 6.6, for example). We can fix a proper closed subspace ##X_0\subseteq X##, then there exists ##x^*## with norm ##1## such that it vanishes on ##X_0##. So if ##S_X\subseteq X_0##, the requirement of ##x^*(x)\neq 1## is met for all ##x\in S_X##.
This might be an obvious question, but if ##X_0## corresponds to the closed unit ball, and ##x^*## vanishes on ##X_0##, i.e., ##x^*(x)=0## for all ##x\in X_0##, isn't it a contradiction to ##\sup_{||x||\leq 1}x*(x)=1##?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nuuskur
Do you distinguish here between the Continuous dual and the Algebraic dual?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: docnet
WWGD said:
Do you distinguish here between the Continuous dual and the Algebraic dual?
I don't know much about the distinction between the two types of duals, but I assume it's the case where ##f## is a linear functional in the continuous dual. If ##f## is allowed to be discontinuous, would it be more trivial to find a discontinuous linear functional to satisfy ##||f||=1## and ##f(x)\neq 1## with ##||x||=1##?
 
Might be mechanical thinking on my part - whenever I see Banach spaces and duals mentioned, I switch my brain to "Hahn-Banach mode" and assume we are talking about topological dual (continuous linear functionals).

If it is discontinuous, then you find your subspace where something behaves the way you want and then extend its basis to a basis on the entire space.

docnet said:
This might be an obvious question, but if ##X_0## corresponds to the closed unit ball, and ##x^*## vanishes on ##X_0##, i.e., ##x^*(x)=0## for all ##x\in X_0##, isn't it a contradiction to ##\sup_{||x||\leq 1}x*(x)=1##?
Careful, ##X_0## is a closed vector subspace. In the one dimensional case, there is no proper nonzero example. As soon as ##0\neq a\in X_0## we have ##X_0=\mathbb R##. In multidimensional case, the proper subspaces could correspond to lines and (hyper)planes, for instance.

edit: Whenever a subspace contains the unit ball, it is the entire space ##X##, simply because ##X## is a countable union of scaled unit balls.

I'm not 100% sure right now what happens when ##X_0## only contains the unit sphere. I think it's still the entire space because we can express any ##x\in X## as ##\lambda z\in \lambda S_X## for some ##\lambda##.

What a clever question!
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: docnet
Here's another idea. A linear map ##f:X\to Y## between normed spaces is continuous, surjective and has unit norm if ##f## maps the unit sphere to the unit sphere. So, can we have a functional that maps ##S_X## to ##-1## or ##\{ \exp (it)\}\setminus \{1\}##, (depending on whether it's over ##\mathbb R## or ##\mathbb C##)?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: docnet
Yes, I guess you're right. It's most likely the continuous dual.
 
We'd be hard pressed to find such an example from #7 over ##\mathbb R## due to linearity: if ##f(x)=-1##, then ##f(-x)=-f(x)=1## for any ##x\in S_X##.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K