Find GLB of A: $(-1)^n\left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{n}\right)$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the greatest lower bound (glb) of the set \( A = \{(-1)^n \left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{n} \right): n \in \mathbb{N}\} \). Participants explore various approaches to analyze the behavior of the sequence defined by \( x_n = (-1)^n \left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{n} \right) \), considering both even and odd indexed terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about comparing terms \( x_{2k} \) and \( x_{2k+1} \) and questions whether a case analysis is necessary.
  • Another participant corrects a formula for \( x_j \) and provides a reformulation of the terms for clarity.
  • There is a mathematical exploration of whether \( x_j \leq x_{j+1} \) holds, leading to the conclusion that \( x_j < x_{j+1} \) is true.
  • It is noted that \( x_{2k} \) is strictly increasing from \(-3/4\) to \(1/4\), while \( x_{2k+1} \) is decreasing from \(7/4\) to \(-1/4\), suggesting bounds for the sequence.
  • A participant proposes that the glb of \( A \) is \(-3/4\) but expresses doubt due to another solution referencing \( x_2 = 5/12\).
  • Further analysis is presented, attempting to show that \(-3/4 + \epsilon\) cannot be a lower bound for any \(\epsilon > 0\), reinforcing the claim of \(-3/4\) as the glb.
  • Another participant revisits their proof and clarifies conditions under which their argument holds, ultimately reaffirming that \(-3/4\) is the glb.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the analysis of the sequence, with some expressing doubts about the correctness of the proposed glb and others providing alternative perspectives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the term \( x_2 = 5/12 \) and its effect on the glb.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that their proofs depend on specific conditions and assumptions about the behavior of the sequence, particularly regarding the bounds and comparisons of terms. There is also mention of potential limitations in the proofs presented.

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Find $\text{glb}(A)$ if $A = \left\{(-1)^n \left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{n} \right): n \in \mathbb{N}\right\}$.$\displaystyle x_n = (-1)^n \left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{n} \right)$ then $ \displaystyle x_{2k} = \frac{1}{4}-\dfrac{1}{k} = \frac{k-4}{4k}$ and $ \displaystyle x_{2k+1} = -\left(\frac{1}{4}-\frac{2}{2k+1}\right) = \frac{7-2k}{4(2k+1)}$.

Now we analyse $x_{2k}$ Let $j = 2k$ then $x_{j} = \dfrac{j-8}{4j}$ and $x_{j+1} = \dfrac{j-7}{4(j+1)} $. Which is bigger: $x_j$ or $x_{j+1}$?

That's where I'm stuck - I can't analyse $x_{2k}, x_{2k+1}$. Is there a trick to it or we have to analyse cases?
 
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NoName said:
$ \displaystyle x_{2k} = \frac{1}{4}-\dfrac{1}{k} = \frac{k-4}{4k}$.

we analyse $x_{2k}$ Let $j = 2k$ then $x_{j} = \dfrac{j-8}{8j}$

Your formula for $x_j$ is not correct.

We have the following:
$\displaystyle x_{2k} = \frac{k-4}{4k}=\frac{\frac{2k}{2}-4}{2(2k)} \ \overset{j=2k}{=} \ \frac{\frac{j}{2}-4}{2j}=\frac{j-8}{4j}$
 
NoName said:
Which is bigger: $x_j$ or $x_{j+1}$?

Suppose that $\frac{j-8}{4j}\leq \frac{j-7}{4(j+1)}$, then $$4(j+1)(j-8)\leq 4j(j-7) \\ \Rightarrow 4(j^2-7j-8)\leq 4j^2-28j \\ \Rightarrow 4j^2-28j-32\leq 4j^2-28j \\ \Rightarrow -32\leq 0$$ which is true. Therefore, $x_j\leq x_{j+1}$.
 
Thanks, mathmari. Since the equality is never attained, we have $x_j < x_{j+1}$ thus $x_j$ is strictly increasing from $-3/4$ to $1/4$. Letting $i= 2k+1$ we have $x_i = \dfrac{8-i}{4i}$ and $x_{i+1} = \dfrac{7-i}{4(i+1)}$. Therefore $x_{i+1} > x_i$. Hence $x_i$ is decreasing from $7/4$ to $-1/4$. That's the same thing as saying it's increasing from $-1/4$ to $7/4$. Therefore $\min(-3/4, -1/4) < x_n < \max(1/4, 7/4) \iff -3/4 < x_n < 7/4 $ Therefore we have $\text{lub}(A) = -3/4.$ Is this correct analysis? I've seen a solution that considers the point $x_2 = 5/12$, which makes me doubt this.
 
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It appears that I was having an off-day here. The $\epsilon-\delta$ proof is far simpler than that. Let $x_n = \dfrac{(-1)^n(n-8)}{4n}.$ A lower bound for $x_n$ is $-\dfrac{3}{4}$. We want to show that $-\dfrac{3}{4}+\epsilon$
is not a lower bound for any $\epsilon > 0$. If $\epsilon > 0$, then $ \exists ~ (2n+1)$ s.t. $\dfrac{2(2n+1)+8}{4(2n+1)}< \epsilon$.

Then $x_{2n+1} = \dfrac{7n-2n}{4(2n+1)} = \dfrac{-3(2n+1)+4n+10}{4(2n+1)} = -\dfrac{3}{4}+\dfrac{2(2n+1)+8}{4(2k+1)} < -\dfrac{3}{4}+\epsilon. $

Hence $-\dfrac{3}{4}+\epsilon$ is not a lower bound for $x_n$ for any $\epsilon > 0$, and therefore $\text{glb}(A) = -\dfrac{3}{4}.$
 
Actually my proof above is not valid for $\epsilon \le \frac{1}{2}$.

Let $x_n = \dfrac{(-1)^n(n-8)}{4n}.$ Clearly a lower bound for $x_n$ is $-\dfrac{3}{4}$.
We need to show that $-\dfrac{3}{4}+\epsilon$ is not a lower bound for $\epsilon > 0$.
If $\epsilon > 0$, there exists an even integer $2n$ s.t. $\dfrac{2n-2}{2n}< \epsilon$, then:
$$x_{2n} = \dfrac{2n-8}{4(2n)} = \dfrac{8(n-1)-6n}{4(2n)} = -\dfrac{3}{4}+\dfrac{2n-2}{2n}< -\dfrac{3}{4}+\epsilon. $$ Thus $-\dfrac{3}{4}$ is the greatest lower bound of $A$. I believe it works now. (Happy)
 

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