Finding a generating function for a canonical transformation

In summary, the conversation is about trying to find a generating function for a canonical transformation involving Q=\left ( \frac{\sin p}{q} \right ) and P=q \cot p. The person is not sure which type of generating function to use, but decides to go with type 1. They use the relevant equations and integrate to find the generating function, but realize that it depends on P and q instead of q and Q. The person is unsure of why this is and has two questions: 1) Why is dF=pdq-PdQ? and 2) How does one figure out that (p+ \cot p)dq-q\cot ^2 p dp=d[q(p+\cot p)]?
  • #1
fluidistic
Gold Member
3,948
264

Homework Statement


I'm trying to find a generating function for the canonical transformation [itex]Q=\left ( \frac{\sin p}{q} \right )[/itex], [itex]P=q \cot p[/itex].

Homework Equations


I am not really sure. I know there are 4 different types of generating function. I guess it's totally up to me to choose the type of the generating function I want, since it's not specified in the problem statement?
So let's say I want a type 1. Thus F_1 depends on q and Q.
[itex]\frac{\partial F_1}{\partial q}=p[/itex]
[itex]\frac{\partial F_1}{\partial Q}=-P[/itex].

The Attempt at a Solution


From the relevant equations, [itex]\partial F_1=-P \partial Q[/itex] and [itex]\partial F_1=p \partial q[/itex].
I don't really know why, but apparently [itex]dF_1=pdq-PdQ[/itex]. It looks like [itex]dF_1=2 \partial F_1[/itex] for some reason unknown to me.
Now I think the main idea to get [itex]F_1[/itex] is to express [itex]dF_1[/itex] as a single differential and then integrate.
I have that [itex]p= \cot ^{-1} \left ( \frac{P}{q} \right )[/itex] and [itex]dQ=\frac{1}{\sin p } \left [ \frac{\cos p}{q}dp-\frac{\sin p}{q^2}dq \right ][/itex].
This gives me [itex]dF_1=(p+ \cot p)dq-q\cot ^2 p dp[/itex]. In a book I found that this is equal to [itex]d[q(p+\cot p)][/itex] (how?!), therefore [itex]F_1=q \cot ^{-1} \left ( \frac{P}{q} \right )+P[/itex]. But it seems that F depends on P and q instead of on q and Q. So I "found" a type 2 generating function instead of type 1... I think I know why, I found p instead of q. Anyway my problems remains.
1)Why is [itex]dF=pdq-PdQ[/itex]?
2)Why and how do you figure out that [itex](p+ \cot p)dq-q\cot ^2 p dp=d[q(p+\cot p)][/itex]?
I'd be very grateful if someone could answer these 2 questions.
Thanks!

Edit: I just answered the "why" of my question 2. I just don't know how do one figures this out.

Edit 2: I do not know why I found out a type 2, namely F(P,q) while I was looking for F(q,Q).
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
I guess I "transformed" the problem back to the original one, before the transformation. Now I understand why dF=pdq-PdQ, that's because of the transformation equations. I guess now I just have to figure out the answer to my question 1. How do you figure out that (p+ \cot p)dq-q\cot ^2 p dp=d[q(p+\cot p)]?
 

FAQ: Finding a generating function for a canonical transformation

1. What is a canonical transformation?

A canonical transformation is a mathematical transformation that preserves the structure of Hamilton's equations of motion and the Poisson brackets. In other words, it preserves the symplectic structure of the system.

2. Why is it important to find a generating function for a canonical transformation?

A generating function is a tool used to find the transformed coordinates and momenta in a canonical transformation. It simplifies the calculations and makes it easier to solve the equations of motion.

3. How do you find a generating function for a canonical transformation?

To find a generating function, you can use one of the several methods, such as the direct method, the Lagrangian method, or the Hamiltonian method. Each method has its advantages and can be used depending on the specific problem at hand.

4. Can a canonical transformation always be expressed as a generating function?

No, not all canonical transformations can be expressed as a generating function. This is because some transformations may not have a unique inverse, making it impossible to find a generating function that satisfies all the necessary conditions.

5. How does a generating function relate to the Hamilton-Jacobi equation?

The Hamilton-Jacobi equation is a partial differential equation that can be solved using a generating function. The generating function is used to obtain the action and the Hamilton's characteristic function, which are then used to solve the Hamilton-Jacobi equation and find the equations of motion for the system.

Back
Top