Finding Orthogonal Matrices: 2 Solutions and Help

AI Thread Summary
Two orthogonal matrices were identified, both involving rotations and reflections, with one having a determinant of -1. The discussion emphasized the need for explicit matrix multiplication to verify orthogonality and the importance of understanding the properties of rotational matrices. A constraint was established for the first row, leading to two possible configurations based on the dot product condition for orthogonality. The conversation concluded with the realization that exploring variations of sine and cosine values can yield additional orthogonal matrices. The participants expressed satisfaction with the problem-solving process and insights gained.
Poetria
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Homework Statement
Find four distinct orthogonal 2x2 matrices, each of which has top-left entry equal to ##-\frac {1} {\sqrt{2}}##
Relevant Equations
Definition of an orthogonal matrix:
##M^T=M^{-1}##
I have found two such matrices:

##\begin{pmatrix} -cos( \frac {\pi} {4}) & sin(\frac {\pi} {4})\\ sin(\frac {\pi} {4}) & cos(\frac {\pi} {4})\end{pmatrix}####\begin{pmatrix} -cos( \frac {\pi} {4}) & -sin(\frac {\pi} {4})\\ -sin(\frac {\pi} {4}) & cos(\frac {\pi} {4})\end{pmatrix}##

Any hint how to find the other two? I have tried several solutions but all of them were wrong.
 
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Poetria said:
I have found two such matrices
How ?
Poetria said:
Any hint how to find the other two?
Do the explicit matrix multiplication and solve the equations ...

##\ ##
 
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Oh, ok, I will try. Many thanks. :)

The first matrix is a rotational one: it's easy if you know its properties. The determinant is -1.
Then I have changed the signs of both sines and verified if the second matrix is orthogonal.
BvU said:
How ?

Do the explicit matrix multiplication and solve the equations ...

##\ ##
 
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Poetria said:
The first matrix is a rotational one
You sure ? I thought those have determinant 1 ...

##\ ##
 
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BvU said:
You sure ? I thought those have determinant 1 ...

##\ ##
Of course, I am wrong. I confused it with this one:

##\begin{pmatrix} cos(\pi/4) & -sin(\pi/4)\\ sin(\pi/4) & cos(\pi/4)\\\end{pmatrix}##

Anyway a rotational matrix was my point of departure. But I needed a negative cos(pi/4) in the top left corner.
 
Last edited:
Poetria said:
Any hint how to find the other two? I have tried several solutions but all of them were wrong.
I think you need to reflect a little more.
 
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PeroK said:
I think you need to reflect a little more.
I think so. I will get to the bottom of it sooner or later. :)
 
Well, I have studied the definition of the orthogonal matrix:
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/OrthogonalMatrix.html
"The rows of an orthogonal matrix are an orthonormal basis. That is, each row has length one, and are mutually perpendicular."

There is a constraint: -1/sqrt(2) in the left top corner of the matrix.
So I have
## \sqrt {(-\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)})^{2}+x^{2}} =1##
##x= \frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}## v ##x= -\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}##

There are two possibilities for the first row:
##\begin{pmatrix} -\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)} & \frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}\end{pmatrix}##
##\begin{pmatrix} -\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)} & -\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}\end{pmatrix}##

The dot product of the first and second row has to be equal to zero.

vector (-1/sqrt(2), 1/sqrt(2)) dot vector (y, z) = 0

##\frac {z} {\sqrt(2)} - \frac {y} {\sqrt(2)}=0##

Therefore y=z.
But the length of the second row must be 1.
Therefore ##y=\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}## v ##y=-\frac {1} {\sqrt(2)}##

The only thing I could do to obtain other matrices is change ##\theta##, e.g. instead of ##\sin(\frac{\pi} {4})## give ##\sin(\frac{9*\pi} {4})## but it's the same numerically.
 
Not all orthogonal matrices are rotations. In fact, only two are rotations. The others involve rotations and a reflection.

Or, you can simply work through the options for ##\pm \frac 1 {\sqrt 2}## in each entry. That gives 8 possibilities with minus in the first entry to check.
 
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Wow. :) I got it. :) Wonderful. Many thanks :)
 
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Poetria said:
Wow. :) I got it. :) Wonderful. Many thanks :)
A bit of quiet reflection was all it needed!
 
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