Free action invariant under galliean boosts?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the invariance of the non-relativistic Lagrangian under Galilean boosts, specifically examining the implications for the action and the conservation laws associated with a free particle. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the non-relativistic Lagrangian \(\mathcal L=\frac{1}{2}m \dot{x}^2\) is invariant under the boost transformation \(x'=x+vt\), suggesting that it does not seem to be invariant.
  • Another participant clarifies that it is the action that must be invariant, not the Lagrangian itself.
  • A participant argues that since the transformation is purely on the field \(x\) and not on the coordinate \(t\), it is appropriate to consider the Lagrangian rather than the action.
  • One participant calculates the change in the Lagrangian, \(\Delta \mathcal L\), and initially expresses uncertainty about whether it can be written as a total time derivative, but later concludes that it can be expressed as such, leading to a conserved quantity \(Q=m\dot{x}t-mx\).
  • Another participant confirms the transformation of the Lagrangian under an infinitesimal transformation and notes that the additional term is indeed a time derivative, supporting the conservation of the center of mass.
  • A participant references an external source to explain the transition from \(\Delta L\) to \(Q\), indicating that there is a methodical approach to this derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the invariance of the Lagrangian versus the action, with some agreeing on the necessity of considering the action's invariance while others focus on the Lagrangian. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these transformations and their consequences.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the transformations and the definitions of the terms involved. The relationship between the change in the Lagrangian and the conserved quantity \(Q\) is not fully explored, leaving some mathematical steps unresolved.

geoduck
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Is the non-relativistic Lagrangian:

[tex]\mathcal L=\frac{1}{2}m \dot{x}^2[/tex]

invariant under boosts x'=x+vt?

It doesn't seem like it is. Surely something must be wrong?
 
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Well, the action must be invariant, not the Lagrangian.
 
dextercioby said:
Well, the action must be invariant, not the Lagrangian.

This is purely a transformation on the field x, and not on the coordinate t, so I think we can consider just the Lagrangian rather than the action.

In any case, the change in the Lagrangian:

[tex]\Delta \mathcal L=m \dot{x}v+m\frac{v^2}{2} \approx m \dot{x}v[/tex]

can't be written as a total time derivative as far as I can tell, so the Lagrangian's are inequivalent. O damn, yes it can:

[tex]\Delta \mathcal L=\frac{d}{dt}\left(mvx \right)[/tex]

So the conserved quantity is

[tex]Q=m\dot{x}t-mx[/tex]

which is clearly conserved for a free particle.

So adding a potential where the forces between particles only depends on relative distances doesn't add anything to ΔL, so Q is still conserved for that case.

So this is just saying that in the absence of external forces, the acceleration of the center of mass is zero, expressed as the conservation of Q. Neat.

Thanks.
 
How did you get from Delta L to Q?
 
Under an infinitesimal transformation
##\dot{q} \rightarrow\dot{q}+v## where ##v## is infinitesimally small, the lagrangian transforms as
##L=m\dot{q}^2/2 \rightarrow m\dot{q}^2/2+m\dot{q}v##.
The second term clearly is a time derivative.
It is sufficient to consider infinitesimal variations of the action.
You are right about the conservation of the center of mass.
 
copernicus1 said:
How did you get from Delta L to Q?
It's done in http://www3.nd.edu/~kbrading/Research/Brading-Chapter4.pdf, Eq.(4.40).
 
Last edited:

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